Series 1 - Episode 8

PookasRule
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Re: Series 1 - Episode 8

Post by PookasRule » Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:50 pm

Very interesting post Canadanne. Thank you for sharing that information. I'll have to pick up a copy of this book for myself.

Which dragon are you referring to? The one who would go on to become Owen or one we ultimately didn't see? Interesting that the producers would nominate him as the final challenge over a confrontation with Mogdred.

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Re: Series 1 - Episode 8

Post by Canadanne » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:01 am

PookasRule wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:50 pm
Which dragon are you referring to? The one who would go on to become Owen or one we ultimately didn't see?

They seem to have gone through several different ideas for the dragon encounter. Tim initially described the dragon lying on a huge raised slab which the dungeoneer would walk past, and it sounds like he was thinking of using a real lizard, as they did with all the toads and spiders etc. Then there were a range of sketches submitted by David Rowe before they settled on the familiar design. So presumably it would have been the same dragon we saw in Series 2, voiced by Lawrence Werber (which was then replaced by Owen as you say).

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Re: Series 1 - Episode 8

Post by Drassil » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:23 am

Canadanne wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:23 pm
Piecing together the various plans and briefs in David Rowe's book, we may now have some idea as to how Richard's quest would have played out ... The name of the room presumably implies that Mogdred would have been summoned instead, perhaps lending support to the theory that the OPPOSITE spell would be needed to transform him into Merlin. That's not quite the end of the quest, though - the final conflict would then have been with the dragon, probably defeating it with a spell from Merlin.

Excellent detective work, Annie.

Unconfirmed information gleaned during the Knightmare Convention weekend suggests that Mogdred may have asked riddles and that the spell from Merlin may have been called REGENERATE. (A happy coincidence since Doctor Who's Seventh Doctor debuted on the same day as Knightmare and was later identified with Merlin.)

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Re: Series 1 - Episode 8

Post by PookasRule » Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:59 pm

He would have asked them riddles? That would be a very interesting development if true and would tie in nicely with the idea of Mogdred being Merlin's alter-ego, with their behaviour and routines being mostly the same. But whereas failure to answer Merlin's riddles merely results in a lack of help, failure to answer Mogdred would result in an "Ooooh nasty!"

Can anyone tell me whether the alter-ego connection was mentioned in Series 2 or was it confined mostly to Series 1?

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Re: Series 1 - Episode 8

Post by Drassil » Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:21 pm

Just Series 1 I think, but happy to be corrected by anyone who's watched Series 2 more closely.

In Series 1, the setup of Mogdred as the anti-Merlin was wasted because no team met Mogdred. In Series 2, it seems he was presented more simply as an evil being to beware of.

By my reckoning, six teams in Series 2 encountered Mogdred and half of those didn't encounter Merlin until afterwards, if at all. As Series 2 watchers, we encountered Mogdred before Merlin (Quest 3), giving no opportunity for the "alter ego" speech we heard from Merlin in Series 1.

I believe the closest Merlin came was in his warning to Team 12: "Mogdred, he glories in the dark side of magic. He can and may hinder your quest..." Ironically, this was (a) the only Series 2 team to encounter Merlin but not Mogdred and (b) was probably already in losing status for not having earned a spell from Merlin.

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Re: Series 1 - Episode 8

Post by Pooka » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:22 pm

Curiouser and curiouser.

Canadanne wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:23 pm
That's not quite the end of the quest, though - the final conflict would then have been with the dragon, probably defeating it with a spell from Merlin.

Which kind of makes sense. We don't know what a 'win' sequence from Series 1 would have looked like, but judging from Series 2 (which had its own exit room), I am imagining it would be a simple exit from the Dungeon after the same final room, since there was no real item to collect.

The idea of collecting a quest item during (or just after) the final encounter wasn't really explored until Series 4 - and, even then, there were post-final encounter challenges to overcome (with the exception of Ben from Series 6, who just had to run through some tunnels, and Dunstan, who got a free ride from Hordriss. Possibly also Barry, although his final encounter could have been with Bulstrode. ;)) So I'm thinking that, if there was a dragon to defeat, then there may have been a room or two afterwards - just to finish the level.

The exit room from Series 2 has the gullotine in it, which I don't think was ever a real threat, but it provides a final 'challenge' for potential winners. This Series may have had the same.

Drassil wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:23 am
Unconfirmed information gleaned during the Knightmare Convention weekend suggests that Mogdred may have asked riddles and that the spell from Merlin may have been called REGENERATE.

That is quite odd, but not inconceivable. If this is true, then I wonder what REGENERATE would do. It sounds like a spell to restore life force, rather than combative magic to use during a final encounter. I'd assume that the team would pass the dragon by using something like a SLEEP spell (which happened later on in Series 2!), or possibly just leg it (like another Series 2 team when Mogdred woke the beast up!), but I suppose we will never really know!
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Re: Series 1 - Episode 8

Post by PookasRule » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:13 pm

I’ve developed a theory concerning Mogdred in Series 1 and how an appearance by him may have panned out. I have based this theory on evidence provided here by Drassil and Canadanne as well as my own observations of the final quest of Series 1.

To begin with, I don’t believe Mogdred would have ultimately proved to be the villain of Series 1, certainly not to the extent he was in Series 2. I see “alter-ego Mogdred” to be a sort of Level 3 counterpart to Lilith. In other words, he is dangerous if displeased but who may ultimately be reasoned with if his demands are met. However, as we are now in Level 3 territory, he will be far harder to placate than Lilith. No mere giving of gifts for Mogdred, oh no!

One thing that struck me about the sole visit to Level 3 in Series 1 was the lack of Mogdred in any sort of physical capacity. No manifestations in front of Richard to taunt and gloat or even to tempt, all of which would become Mogdred traits in the following series. If Mogdred was intended to be a villain at this stage, surely at least one confrontation would have been called for, even if Richard ultimately proved unable to pass though the Walls of Jericho. Another interesting point to note is that, according to David Rowe’s book, the room that lies beyond the Walls of Jericho is called Mogdred’s Chamber. We can deduce from this that the production team most likely did not envisage Mogdred to be an out-and-out villain at this stage, otherwise the room would have been given a more menacing name, such as Mogdred’s Lair, for example. If Drassil’s information is correct and the confrontation with Mogdred would have consisted of riddles, this further cements the idea in my mind that he was conceived as a potential threat and not necessarily a villain.

I haven’t read David Rowe’s book yet, so this next supposition may be easily debunked. It is my belief that alter-ego Mogdred would have looked substantially different than he did in Series 2 and onwards. This alter-ego form would essentially resemble a dark Merlin, with the same long hair, moustache and beard, but clad in black robes and perhaps with flecks of red for extra menace. I imagine he would have sounded more-or-less the same as Series 2 and would have wore a much more malevolent expression on his face, perhaps even the same pale makeup.

With all that in mind, here’s how I envisage Richard’s quest proceeding to victory. Richard picks up the horn instead of the dagger in the clue room and proceeds as normal. Upon reaching the Walls of Jericho, he uses the horn to clear a path. Once all the bricks have vanished, a table with some food and an M device is revealed to the right. After replenishing his Life Force, Richard uses the M device to summon Mogdred, who declares that safe passage can only be gained through the correct answering of three riddles. To answer even one incorrectly would result in him using his dark magic to end the quest. Furthermore, these riddles aren’t exactly straightforward, as befits Level 3. Think of three questions similar to the Avebury and beetle ones of Series 3. All the while, Richard’s Life Force is slowly being drained again thanks to being in close proximity to Mogdred’s dark magic.

Upon all three riddles being answered correctly, Mogdred grudgingly concedes and, having been bested, transforms into Merlin. Merlin congratulates the team and supplies them with a REGENERATE spell, which they immediately cast as Richard’s Life Force is virtually gone. Merlin may also provide them with a very subtle hint about the dragon that lies ahead. The team thanks him and Richard leaves the chamber.

Upon entering the next room, they are confronted by a dragon who is initially extremely hostile and threatens them. This is where the OPPOSITE spell from Mug comes in handy, as it enables the team to calm the dragon and turn him from an enemy into a friend. The dragon then offers help as to how they can escape the dungeon and perhaps opens a previously locked door for them. The team follows his instructions and Richard is able to escape the dungeon, reunite with his advisers and receive his prize.

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