Series 3 - Episode 5

Malefact
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Re: Leo's Riddle

Post by Malefact » Tue Feb 11, 2003 3:48 pm

Thanks for that, Dan.  ;)

Me not thick no longer.

Mind you, I think this riddle could top the list of hardest-ever riddles.
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Re: Leo's Riddle

Post by JoeGrocottJames » Tue Feb 11, 2003 8:17 pm

What was Martin's riddle? Why should Leo have been more likely to get Martin's riddle than Martin's team?

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Re: Leo's Riddle

Post by Malefact » Tue Feb 11, 2003 11:53 pm

Martin's riddle was:

"The Hercules, the Bombadier, the Stag, the Devil's Coach-horse and the Caterpillar Hunter are all forms of what?"

This riddle is a lot easier. I think perhaps towards the end of the series everyone was getting desparate for there to be a winning team so they plumped for an easy riddle in level 3. I won't tell yous lot what happens 'coz it ain't been on Challenge yet....you lucky things!  :P
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Re: Leo's Riddle

Post by GrimaldineGrimwold » Wed Feb 12, 2003 12:19 am

It's odd really. I think Leo's riddle would have killed off most teams if they'd needed to get it right. I'd have been surprised if hardly any 13 year olds (or whatever) could get it right.

As we've said before, several of the riddles that series were real horrors. It's strange, because in many of the other obstacles the production team have often been at pains to keep teams alive. In some cases there's huge amounts of editing gone on in order to keep teams alive, albeit mostly in Level 1. Some of the sound/video footage just doesn't match up at all, and there are several instances where the shot cuts back to the advisors just as the dungeoneer is about to step to their death, and it only goes back again to the main action one's they've guided him/her back to a safe position.
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Re: Leo's Riddle

Post by Dan » Wed Feb 12, 2003 12:21 am

Martin's riddle was:

"The Hercules, the Bombadier, the Stag, the Devil's Coach-horse and the Caterpillar Hunter are all forms of what?"

This riddle is a lot easier.
In fact, it's not even a riddle - it's a straightforward question. ;-)

I like the way that, even if they went for an easier question to try and make a winner more likely, they still were prepared to possibly have a(nother) series without a winner, and didn't resort to letting people off being cut in half by blades or taking shortcuts and opening cans of worms etc. etc...

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Re: Leo's Riddle

Post by Malefact » Wed Feb 12, 2003 12:24 am

I agree.

I hope that this new series doesn't shy away from that, either. I hope it'll be RUTHLESS with duff teams. The reason lots of teams had such long quests such as in series 4 and 7 is because there were far too few puzzles and riddles to solve. The older series were tenser because every room was an achievement, as opposed to just going through the motions.
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Re: Leo's Riddle

Post by GrimaldineGrimwold » Wed Feb 12, 2003 12:34 am

Absolutely.

I can see why they wanted to get winning teams in later series, especially once the whole Powers That Be/Opposition soap opera had made its way into the game. There were definitely less puzzles to solve, and getting through each room was no longer an achievement in itself. My view is that this tactic was counterproductive in getting winning teams- it meant you got more crappy teams wasting time bumbling through the levels who would have been killed off earlier in earlier series. If you kill the crappy teams off early, then you give more of a chance for decent teams to get a go at the dungeon. So, by making the early levels a real challenge, you actually increase the chances of getting at least one series winner, in my humble opinion.
Last edited by GrimaldineGrimwold on Wed Feb 12, 2003 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Leo's Riddle

Post by Malefact » Wed Feb 12, 2003 12:37 am

I agree totally. It's paradoxical in a way but it's true!
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Re: Leo's Riddle

Post by Pooka » Wed Feb 12, 2003 9:59 pm

Sorry, but if you go into the Dungeon expecting to answer riddles then riddles should be asked. Not straightforward questions. That just tests one's knowledge of trivia, whereas riddles test one's poetic sense and logical thinking.
I always think Knightmare was unfair on less knowledgeable teams by asking them just question-questions. I mean, where's the riddle part of that? If I were to ask you what we would more commonly call a chilopod - would that be fair?
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Re: Leo's Riddle

Post by Malefact » Wed Feb 12, 2003 10:04 pm

Very true.

It's a bit like on task sheets you get in classes and labs; they call them questions but they're not questions at all - they're instructions. It's a similar kind of principal.
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Re: Leo's Riddle

Post by GrimaldineGrimwold » Wed Feb 12, 2003 10:05 pm

That certainly makes sense. I suppose the production team often just ran out of riddles and went for questions of varying difficulties.

It certainly makes more sense to test logical thinking than knowledge per se, as you say.
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Re: Leo's Riddle

Post by Pooka » Wed Feb 12, 2003 10:07 pm

Logical thinking? Never! Poetic sense all the way!
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Leo's Quest

Post by Kawaii_Catgirl » Fri Jul 25, 2003 3:45 pm

Leo's team seem to be having a rough time, don't you think? There were a great number of very close calls during their quest, and it was only by the skill of the advisors that Leo got away unscathed.

Merlin's chamber provided a great hazard - at least one team has met their defeat in the vast pit, but Leo's dance of doom defied all the odds. Did you see how close his foot came to the edge? If it wasn't for the step taking effect, I think he would've toppled in. And stepping onto the new tile was no less perilous.

Merlin's SWORD spell is generally offensive - though the team paid heed to his advice and used it to gain Hordriss's respect. He was acting quite malevolently throughout the quest, appearing as an evil portent on the wall in a Level 1 chamber, and threatening to dispose of them on the bridge. His hand was raised, and they'd even started up the "death" music, before they made the decision to Spellcast. But, Hordriss is a powerful mage himself, and could've quite easily removed the sword if he'd been hellbent on finishing the team off. Perhaps, as Treguard thought, respect was the key?

Oh, and by the way, chaps - unless you were spellcasting SROWD, your dispell command wouldn't have had any effect, and Leo might've taken a blow to his Life Force - at that dangerous level, I'd surmise it'd have been fatal. You must've impressed the crew so that they let you off. Other teams weren't as lucky, with the crew insisting on perfect spelling.

Since when has it become a rule that you can dispel other people's spells if you've once used the same spell yourself? I suspect Merlin would've gotten rid of it himself if they hadn't, but it was getting very close to him, and they had no choice. And again, the person who conjured the sword must've been a poor speller too - "Spellcasting: SROWD! Whoops, wrong spelling... Oh, it worked anyway. Good for me!"

Of course, once they'd answered the Gargoyle's question incorrectly, they were dead. IMO, I think that the Gargoyle is the best wall monster I've seen - it has Golgarach's threats, and the Series 4 door monster's general gloom and dismay ("Oh dear..." etc).

Well, there's my two cents.
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Re: Leo's Quest

Post by RoxxAatherton » Fri Jul 25, 2003 5:03 pm

I've always wondered about the disspell thing, I dont get the order you have to say the letters in to disspell.

I thought you just said them backwards, but having watched some shows it seems that's not the case, can anyone enlighten me?

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Re: Leo's Quest

Post by Snowwiewolf » Fri Jul 25, 2003 5:09 pm

I would, but I'm ignorant about this....  ???
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