Why did Knightmare change so much in Series 3?

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TimeMaster
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Why did Knightmare change so much in Series 3?

Post by TimeMaster » Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:21 pm

Apologies to you all if there's already a thread on this, but I haven't been able to find one.

Knightmare Series 1 and 2 were fairly similar to each other with largely the same rooms / characters. However Series 3 was in some ways like an entirely new show! I can understand that the show wanted to advance technologically. However I am intrigued as to why virtually all of the Series 1 and 2 characters did not return for Series 3. What happened to Folly, Mildread, Lilith, Gretel, Cedric et al? Did the actors all decide to leave or did Tim Child decide that he wanted a dungeon clearout?

Intrigued to know if anyone has any answers .
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Re: Why did Knightmare change so much in Series 3?

Post by pjmlfc05 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:36 pm

I guess Tim wanted to use new characters. Having the same one's all the time would have been boring. It's the same for the rooms that were used. You couldn't have the same rooms being used all the time. Series 1 to 3 had similar rooms though. It was from series 4 onwards that more outside locations were being used. I thought this was a good move and added more of an adventure feel to a quest.
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Re: Why did Knightmare change so much in Series 3?

Post by wombstar » Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:27 pm

Mogdred, Merlin and the Viking chap all returned so they weren't all gone.
Lilith room was still present as was the inside of the serpent I think, we still have the well way and the mine shaft was developed. Level 3 wasn't too difference either (not that we saw much if it)

Be a bit boring if it was the same, by the end of series 2 the wall monsters needed changing certainly.

I also like that some characters are only exclusive that one series, like Mildred in series 2 and Grimwold in series 3. But there is only so much you can do with them before they become repetitive.
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Re: Why did Knightmare change so much in Series 3?

Post by Mystara » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:23 pm

It's an interesting question, and I'm not sure I even have any theories as to why.

The only relevant fact I can think of is that series 1 of Knightmare, as with many TV series, is short. It's possible that the cast were contracted to two series?
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Re: Why did Knightmare change so much in Series 3?

Post by EvelynMason » Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:09 pm

I haven't seen all the original series since it was aired in the 1980s and 1990s, and have had to make do with Challenge episodes since they put it on, but they only got so far as the end of Series 2 ? I can't quite remember what occured after that - maybe now I won't get a chance to see anything, as they've taken it off now. I thought the early series were some of the best, and with it, it's characters, from what I have seen the last few weeks, and can remember from watching when first on. As the series went on, the Dungeoneer could visit forests and be outside the dungeon complex, which was a fun touch, and action would not be restricted to just the same rooms. Above all else, I feel I'm just upset the repeats on Challenge seem to have come to a dead end at a very premature stage, and I won't be able to view again like 20 or 25 years ago. That is, the Knightmare program and series, as a whole. Really feel short changed on this.

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Re: Why did Knightmare change so much in Series 3?

Post by Drassil » Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:16 pm

Hi, TimeMaster. Thank you for posing this interesting question. The best person to answer it is Tim Child, and I hope he will one day.

I don't see Series 3 as all that different from Series 2. I can imagine the production staff sitting down after S2, realising that there was room for improvement and deciding that renewal could emphasise that improvement. What, as a bare minimum, defined the early Knightmare dungeon? A dungeon master, a force for good and a force for evil. So Treguard stayed, Merlin stayed and Mogdred stayed, but the other characters were dispensable. That wasn't necessarily a reason for replacing the actors themselves though, so it's hard to say why 6 out of 9 cast members didn't stay on for the third series.

By my rough tally, there were as many new rooms introduced in S2 as were introduced in S3.

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Re: Why did Knightmare change so much in Series 3?

Post by HobGoblin » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:41 pm

It's interesting what different people see as being the key elements of KM. For me, 'what's your favourite room?' is a much more relevant question than 'what's your favourite character?' as it was the environments, puzzles and traps which were important to me. The characters were largely generic archetypes there to receive or impart information - the jester, the maid etc. - and I never really bonded with them as a viewer (in fact my favourite 'characters' were the chasing threats like the mechanical warrior). Lengthy character interactions can be a bit pantomime and often just distract from the serious business of questing.

This is probably why I've always thought of series 3 as being the same but better than series 2 with just the right amount of incremental improvements. I do know characters are v important to many fans though and can see why they would see wholesale changes where I did not.

As for the reason so many actors changed, I was about to suggest that a show like KM was probably a job designed to lead to bigger and better things and therefore not a long term prospect. However, I'm not sure history supports this theory!
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Re: Why did Knightmare change so much in Series 3?

Post by TimeMaster » Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:16 pm

HobGoblin wrote: As for the reason so many actors changed, I was about to suggest that a show like KM was probably a job designed to lead to bigger and better things and therefore not a long term prospect. However, I'm not sure history supports this theory!
Let's not forget though how many actors leave soaps etc, sure that they are bound for bigger and better things, only to never be seen again! Perhaps some of the Knightmare cast had similar ideas.
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Re: Why did Knightmare change so much in Series 3?

Post by pjmlfc05 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:09 pm

I guess another thing was Knightmare had to evolve to stay relevant. I appreciate that some people didn't like the later series but at the end of the day Knightmare had to be kept fresh otherwise we wouldn't have got 8 series out of it.

It's the same with the characters who starred in the 1st 2 series. Most were great but the produces had to explore new one's. The same went for the rooms used. To be honest most of them had ran their course so again the producers had to look for something new.
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Re: Why did Knightmare change so much in Series 3?

Post by knightmaredave » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:25 pm

I think that series 3 needed to be changed, characters become predicatable especially as they were samey in s 1 and 2 Milderd and Lilith did the same role so did olaf and so did Merlin, . I really liked the dwarf tunnels, the goblins, the ogre and the valley in level 1.velda was also an interesting erm characters,
my fave was the introduction of the swords and the axe, morghana did rather overpower mogdred but she has a great hit rate

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Re: Why did Knightmare change so much in Series 3?

Post by HStorm » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:24 pm

I'd argue that season 2 was as distinct from season 1 as from season 3. Even though a lot of the same locations were still used, many of them were recoloured or modified e.g. Cedric's cave was given an icy sheen in season 2. New characters and quest objects were added, extra rooms were included. So the changes in season 3 were largely just a natural continuation of that process. Although the newcomers to the cast were a bit more than that, I think even there it was a recognition that the character line-up had been a bit of a series weakness so far.

Far more fundamental changes only set in with the start of the fourth season.
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Re: Why did Knightmare change so much in Series 3?

Post by EvelynMason » Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:49 pm

It just occured again, I lost all my work after going to post 8-o but tried (again) to say that all shows and programmes need to change to keep their interest and Knightmare was no different. Sometimes you need to introduce new characters and lay to rest old names and faces to move on.

I haven't seen Series 3 (or beyond) since the original episodes as Challenge haven't shown beyond series 2 this year, and I wasn't able to view previous episdoes they showed in years past, as didn't have satellite at the time. I've seen bits and pieces on Youtube from older series and shows, but it's not the same as watching on television and watching a continuation as challenge have done recently, but still waiting to see beyond series 2 ! :(

(saved draft this time)

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