Red Dragons

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Red Dragons

Post by Canadanne » Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:57 pm

I notice that in the Spring issue of The Quest before they filmed Series 8, Lord Fear was talking about how Sly Hands had managed to find him a red dragon called Scaborous - a deadly threat to the Powers That Be and all future dungeoneers. Yet as we know, by the time the new season actually began, he was stuck instead with Bhal-Shebah ("about as much use on guard duty as a gerbil").

What's the story there, do you think? Are Scaborous and Bhal-Shebah supposed to be the same dragon? If so, why the name change? (By which I mean, does anyone have any creative theories - not just the likely explanation that TQ's article was based on an early draft.) And if they're separate individuals, then what happened to Scaborous in the weeks before the path re-opened?

I'm still pretty bewildered as to why Lord Fear would want another red dragon anyway, after the comprehensive disaster that was Red Death! (My personal theory was that he'd accidentally bought it whilst drunk, but the diary entry would appear to disprove this, as he seemed quite pleased about Sly's success.)

Any thoughts? :)

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Re: Red Dragons

Post by JamesA » Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:18 pm

I've had a think about this and have come up with two possible solutions.

1.) We all know that Bhal-Shebah suffered from a multiple personality disorder - maybe Scaborous was another side to the dragon that wasn't actually seen when Knightmare was on air. Maybe it was previously known as Bhal-Shebah-Scaborous, but Lord Fear managed to vanquish the personality of Scaborous meaning that the dragon was just left with the dual personality of Bhal and Shebah.

2.) In respect of the "separate individuals" comment, Scaborous could have been purchased first, however it was so powerful that even Lord Fear couldn't control it! As a consequence, Scaborous was sent back to wherever it was brought from and Lord Fear was offered Bhal-Shebah as a replacement, which he duly accepted. And even though Bhal-Shebah successfully managed to put an end to one team's quest perhaps it too became beyond the control of Lord Fear, which is why we never saw it beyond
Team 3/Episode 5! (And also adds another notch towards his Fearship's unsuccessful history with red dragons, as previously mentioned.)
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Re: Red Dragons

Post by Mystara » Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:21 pm

I just think that the quest isn't canon.
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Re: Red Dragons

Post by Canadanne » Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:23 pm

I like to think it is canon - lots of interesting nuggets of info to complement what we saw on screen! That's just a personal choice though, of course.

Good theories James! I'm leaning towards the second one: too powerful so he had to send it back. That also fits quite nicely with another diary entry, the amusing one about Skeletrons ("It's not working. I've sent it back. I'm not paying for this rubbish...")

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Re: Red Dragons

Post by Pooka » Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:32 pm

Since Bhal-Shebah only killed one team, and red dragons showed up in other quests, there's nothing to suggest that one of them wasn't Scarborous.

Unless Red Death was Scarborous. I mean, where does it suggest that his name was "Red Death"?
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Re: Red Dragons

Post by Canadanne » Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:41 pm

I suppose it's possible he had more than one red dragon following the dungeoneers in S8... although surely he would have mentioned if there was another one? (Bhal-Shebah makes quite a few definite appearances after killing Richard. It's mentioned in episode 3, when LF first complains about its split personality. It then appears arguing with itself in episode 5 and is taken off guard duty as a result. Finally in episode 9 it gets brainwashed and turned into Firestorm of Marblehead. At no point do they seem to have the option of simply using Scaborous instead!)

You've lost me with the part about Red Death? That was definitely a different dragon... it says in episode 610 that it wants to be called Red Death (which LF thinks is "a mite pretentious"), and it was dead long before the article about Scaborous was written.

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Re: Red Dragons

Post by Mashibinbin » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:39 am

I'd say Scaborous was sucessfully acquired by Sly Hands. As it was between seasons and as a treat he was granted a rare 'day orf'. During which he went to the Crazed Heifer, had a few flagons of ale, chatted up Marta (and who could blame him!) unsucessfully and got thrown out. (and who could blame her!) This caused him to get rather maudlin and despondant that nobody loved him and so he decided to visit Scaborous as that had been his only sucess of late, unfortunately he left the gate open after falling asleep and Scaborous flew back home to a now overfilled pen as his parents had been, shall we say, rather busy in his absence. His father wasn't best pleased and shouted:

"There's millions of wyrms all under one roof! Scaborous! Scaborous!"

Upon hearing this dragon cry, Sly woke and looked for a replacement and got the cheapest he could find from Honesty Bartram namely Bhal-Shebah. He readily did this as although he was giving up his collection of golden globes (for his prowess in the Dunhelm amateur dramatics society) he was getting two dragons for the price of one!
Last edited by Drassil on Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Spelling change made at user's request

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Re: Red Dragons

Post by HStorm » Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:38 pm

I suspect 'Scarborous' is probably just the name the production team were originally going to give Bhal-Shebah, but they decided to change it because it sounded a little too like 'Skarkill', and they wanted to vary things up a bit. They may not have made the change until after TQ had already gone to print. That sort of thing happens quite a lot to TV listings magazines.

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Re: Red Dragons

Post by KaM » Sun Jan 16, 2011 3:20 pm

Pooka wrote:Unless Red Death was Scarborous. I mean, where does it suggest that his name was "Red Death"?
*grins* "A mite pretentious", but we'll go with it. The name's confirmed in 6.11 [18 mins]. "There's a good ... Red Death. Soon you'll be going walkies".

I like Bhal-Shebah, and its foibles. :P I'd agree that a name change could have happened at any late point, but I'm glad that name was used. It would be curious to know what happened to Firestorm of Marblehead in its quest to destory Linghorm. What is inferred in the final quest is that Maldame still lived...

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Re: Red Dragons

Post by Canadanne » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:03 pm

Mashibinbin wrote:I'd say Scaborous was sucessfully acquired by Sly Hands. As it was between seasons and as a treat he was granted a rare 'day orf'. During which he went to the Crazed Heifer, had a few flagons of ale, chatted up Marta (and who could blame him!) unsucessfully and got thrown out. (and who could blame her!) This caused him to get rather maudlin and despondant that nobody loved him and so he decided to visit Scaborous as that had been his only sucess of late, unfortunately he left the gate open after falling asleep and Scaborous flew back home to a now overfilled pen as his parents had been, shall we say, rather busy in his absence. His father wasn't best pleased and shouted:

"There's millions of worms all under one roof! Scaborous! Scaborous!"

Upon hearing this dragon cry, Sly woke and looked for a replacement and got the cheapest he could find from Honesty Bartram namely Bhal-Shebah. He readily did this as although he was giving up his collection of golden globes (for his prowess in the Dunhelm amateur dramatics society) he was getting two dragons for the price of one!
I love it. ;D

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Re: Red Dragons

Post by Mashibinbin » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:24 pm

Thankyou :) Although worms should of course be spelt wyrms (if a mod can adjust post accordingly I'd be grateful please) the rest should be readable.

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Re: Red Dragons

Post by BBrooks » Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:49 pm

You've got to remember that the "Snapdragons" in Level 1 were red, that could have been Scaborous. :) Also from Series 6 onwards, in the opening credits a small red dragon snaps out at the Dungeoneer as he runs by. Was that Scaborous as an infant?
It could be like this, Sly Hands could have bought Scaborous as an egg in between Series 5 and 6 and looked after it until he hatched. Then for the first few years of his life, Lord Fear kept him busy by letting him scare Dungeoneer's down that corridor you see in the credits. Once he got big enough, he tried to train him into a fearsome weapon against the "Power's That Be". But by then he found out that Scaborous had gained a terrible rebellious nature, this got to much for Fear, so he sacked him. In desperation he then bought the first Red Dragon he could find and sadly for him it was Bhal-Shebah.

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Re: Red Dragons

Post by Canadanne » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:36 pm

BBrooks(KM Forever) wrote:You've got to remember that the "Snapdragons" in Level 1 were red, that could have been Scaborous. :) Also from Series 6 onwards, in the opening credits a small red dragon snaps out at the Dungeoneer as he runs by. Was that Scaborous as an infant?
It could be like this, Sly Hands could have bought Scaborous as an egg in between Series 5 and 6 and looked after it until he hatched. Then for the first few years of his life, Lord Fear kept him busy by letting him scare Dungeoneer's down that corridor you see in the credits. Once he got big enough, he tried to train him into a fearsome weapon against the "Power's That Be". But by then he found out that Scaborous had gained a terrible rebellious nature, this got to much for Fear, so he sacked him. In desperation he then bought the first Red Dragon he could find and sadly for him it was Bhal-Shebah.
Hahaha! I like the way you think! :D

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Re: Red Dragons

Post by Drassil » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:17 pm

This shell-phone might lead to the answer. The last one I found was on Orange, and Treguard duly reclaimed it; but this one's most likely Opposition as it's on Phobafone...

Lord Fear: ...Skarkill, I don't actually mind being called Fearship. It's hardly slander, is it? Don't be so hard on yourself, old thing. That's my job.

Skarkill: Yes, yer Fear... Fearship. Speaking of which, how many more of these skelewhatsits do you want me to assemble?

Lord Fear: Oh, a couple hundred more ought to do it. Enough to ensure a skeletron legacy. If you're struggling, look for a corner piece. And if you can't keep up with the Scurriers, I'll get you a skateboard. Dismissed. Right, time to catch up on EastEnders. It does so lift my mood. *Another communication comes in* Hands. What do you want?

Hands: Beggin' yer pardon, Lordship, but it's about that red dragon I got you.

Lord Fear: Ah yes, how is our scabby Ouroboros?

Hands: Well 'e's stopped gnawing 'is tail, but there's somefin else I 'ave to tell you. Before I went off to collect 'im the other week, I was a bit intox... intoxca...

Lord Fear: You were stone-cold sober and nothing whatsoever went wrong?

Hands: No, I was drunk as a monk.

Lord Fear: Oh well, that's the last time I try optimism. Continue.

Hands: When I got there, there was two dragon eggs. I fought I must be seeing double, what with the ale an' all, and I didn't know which was the actual egg, so I did the cleverest fing I could fink of: I said to the bloke, "I'll take two eggs, but I can only carry one."

Lord Fear: And you only paid for one?

Hands: I tried, but the bloke wanted money upfront for two. "Hand it over or face a ball," he said. "A fireball." I fink he was threatening me.

Lord Fear: Sounds like a botched attempt to rip off someone else's joke. On with the tale.

Hands: So I picked up one of the eggs, and it was the real McGrew! Off I went. Only today I find out that there was two eggs all along, and 'cause I bought both, I 'ave to collect the second one, which 'as now 'atched. But two's better than one, right?

Lord Fear: In the case of brain cells, yes, but I wouldn't expect you to know that. In the case of red dragons, no. It was hard enough looking after one; two will bankrupt me. But genius that I am, I've got some magic that may sort this out. Bring both dragons to me and I'll shift-and-blend them into one beast: twice as scaly, doubly deadly and two times better at obeying my orders and jumping through hoops. Speaking of which, Pat Butcher's earrings await.

Hands: 'Eavens!

Lord Fear: So glad you're suitably impressed, Hands.

Hands: No, Evans. She remarried after Frank.

Lord Fear: Fancy that, old mucker: you an expert on soap. You'd best go: another shock like that could kill me. And stay out of the Mad Cow during lurking hours from now on. I always thought it was a bit genteel for you anyway.

Hands: I'll see if the Dirty Duck's unbanned me yet. I liked it there. A nice bolshy bar.

Lord Fear: If you say so. Dismissed. Now, what to call the forthcoming dragon...

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Re: Red Dragons

Post by Canadanne » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:17 am

Drassil wrote:(some sheer unadulterated brilliance)
;D *laughs herself sick* ;D

*does the "We are not worthy" motion*

Thank you for that.
:D :D :D :D :D

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