Series 9 Cameos

How might you change Knightmare if a new series were to be made?
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Series 9 Cameos

Post by HobGoblin » Thu May 23, 2013 4:07 pm

As I’m sure many of us do, I was recently thinking about what series 9 would look like if I ruled the world. Now, I’ve given the eyeshield a bit of a bashing recently so you might assume that it wouldn’t figure anywhere in my plans. Well, actually, you’d be wrong.

The eyeshield did feature in 5 of KM’s 8 series and to that end is, arguably, a fundamental part of the show. Series 9 should be, as others have said, a synthesis of new and old game mechanics, characters, puzzles and items. It would be fresh and exciting but riff on what people remember about the show (kinda like the new Dr Who does I suppose). So, I think the eyeshield would definitely make a couple of cameo appearances, albeit as a clue room object only. Here are a couple of ideas as to how it could be used:

The dungeoneer enters a ‘room of many doors’ type scenario. All doors but one lead to certain death. Having taken the eyeshield from the clueroom, our plucky adventurer merely holds it up – cut to a short VT sequence of the shield leading them out of the room through the correct door. And then that’s it! No more eyeshield in that quest.

The dungeoneer enters the level 3 clue room. Two of the objects are shields – the eyeshield and a regular shield. A scroll tells the team something like ‘the gorgon lies ahead.’ If they take the eyeshield they get turned to stone as, of course, they should have worked out that they needed the blind shield to get past Medusa.

Etc.

Does anyone have any other ideas for series 9 cameos (eyeshield related or otherwise)?
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Re: Series 9 Cameos

Post by wombstar » Thu May 23, 2013 7:09 pm

Then you may as well give the a 'sight' spell.. because that's a pointless use of the eye shield. The Eye shield is fine the way it is.. maybe over used but it adds a little something extra and saves the viewer from having to struggle watching a team give bad direction out of a path way or something.. we don't need to suffer that.

Maybe the eye shield would only prided the advisers with 'close ups' if they're watching though a magic pool or mirror they shouldn't get close up of table items (they would need to be described correctly by the dungeneer, finding the eye shield should work to assist the advisers. But getting it shouldn't be essential but a bonus to make your chances a bit better. Only receive it after three correct riddles or something a little tricky.

I don't mind keeping the reach wand, providing it's only used once for a one off puzzle.
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Re: Series 9 Cameos

Post by HobGoblin » Fri May 24, 2013 6:57 pm

Tsk, there was me thinking I'd actually found a point for the eye shield ;)

Though the sight spell is slightly different - that would just enable the dungeoneer to see the room and wouldn't help with the choice of door. My idea was that the shield could guide them out in a context in which such aid was actually required! I suppose it's a riff on the stained glass window 'this is the way to go' type of puzzle.

I don't really like the idea of the eye shield replacing guidance from the advisors as this is one of the skills they need to master in order to beat the dungeon.

But I don't want this to be specifically eye shield focused. What about other things that cropped up in series 1-8 that you'd like to see just once in s9, for old times sake as it were? How about the pit of worms, or maybe the monsters' stomach? And how could they be used in an interesting manner?

(As for the reach wand, didn't this spend most of its time being carried around for no particular reason? Might as well have been an occasional clue room object).
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Re: Series 9 Cameos

Post by AriadnesLayer » Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:58 pm

I think it's a great idea to bring objects/rooms back for one-off cameos just to link the (hypothetical) new series to the original one. I love your idea about the eyeshield, I totally get where you were coming from with it.

Although I prefer the later series to the earlier ones, in terms of watchability and gameplay, I have always found it strange that so many characters from the first few series disappeared never to be spoken of again. I always got the impression that the dungeon was an ancient place and these characters were like ghosts, who stayed there forever and had been there for centuries before the first quest began. So it just seems weird we don't see them again after series 3. In particular The Oracle has always stood out to me as something that should have remained in the show. I guess it replaced by scrolls, but a one off appearance again would be good.

I wouldn't mind a wellway popping up occasionally. Even if we are sticking to the continuity of the opposition blocking them all up, it would be a good place for a dungeoneer to hide inside while listening in on an important conversation between to plotting characters passing through the room. And it would make a nice one-off altenative to a spyglass sequence as a way of finding out information from the opposition.

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Re: Series 9 Cameos

Post by HobGoblin » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:32 pm

Glad that someone's coming with me on this one! :)

Yes, there are so many fantastic ideas throughout S1-8 that it would be a shame if S9 didn't make use of them. The trick is finding new ways to present them.

Fantastic news on the pilot btw. Series 9 fantasies have always been something I've enjoyed indulging in - some people explore the KM universe through fanfiction, audio plays etc. but my bag has always been trying to think up new rooms and puzzles. I suppose they are daydreams borne out of hope and it's somewhat unreal that S9 may actually happen!
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Re: Series 9 Cameos

Post by UnclePob » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:04 pm

When I look at the Geek Week episode, it appears that the rooms are in full 3D even though they retain the classic Rowe-painting style quite nicely. This means the show should be able to afford camera angles that simply weren't possible in the past because of the 2D nature of the room artwork.

Going too far into 3D carries the risk that you'd slowly lose much of the feel that the 2D environments in the past oozed. To that end, the Eye Shield should definitely be included because the regular dungeon environments now support free camera angles, though it's use should be re-imagined to avoid supplanting the manual dungeoneer navigation or becoming boring through repetition.

The Eye Shield is literally an eye on a shield. That sounds obvious, but until now it's simply been a passive object. What hasn't been seized on the the shield's mobility, specifically the dungeoneer's ability to direct the shield around rather than vice-versa.

So picture this - the (now 3D realised) classic David Rowe rooms return and we're in one of the chambers in Level 1. Looking through a spyglass we see Lord Fear point out that he's marked the solution to an upcoming puzzle on the ceiling just in case he forgets. The team then reach that room, and of course we once again see things from a static 2D point of view. What is required would be for the dungeoneer to point the eye of the shield upwards, at which point the advisor's view is replaced with a live camera-angle of that room based around the shield's point of view, during which the puzzle solution can be seen.

Another situation: another spyglass reveals Lord Fear has finally devised a solution to the problem of too many dungeoneers surviving the dreaded corridor of blades - he's reversed the mechanism. Forearmed with this knowledge, upon entering the corridor the dungeoneer must hold the shield behind his back in order to see the blades approaching from the rear...

But there's another evil twist: if the eye shield is positioned behind the dungeoneer, when a blade approaches and the advisers give instructions to avoid it, they must instruct the dungeoneer to move in the opposite direction than would immediately appear. A blade approaching on the left hand side of the screen would instinctively cause the team to move the dungeoneer to the right, but since the camera angle is reversed they would have to move him to the left.

And of course, if the dungeon is actually in 3D, but simply displayed in 2D, then the Eye Shield is could be used at any time to give the advisors a better view of certain areas of a room or angles that can't be seen normally.

Why not use a sight potion or spell instead? The reason is simple, to encourage ingenuity and encourage lateral thinking. Ordinarily, if the dungeoneer earns a sight potion or magic spell he/she is expecting to use it within the next room or at least some point nearby, and is therefore on alert to look for the right time to use it. The Eye Shield, if always as ever present as the Helmet of Justice, becomes a familiar tool, usually worn on the arm, in the team's arsenal which the team must keep in mind that they possess throughout the adventure, and can be both a help and a hindrance (for example, if used for too long in inappropriate locations the team won't be able to see a pack of goblins sneaking up on them, which is a nice nod to the dangers claimed to be posed by too much spyglass gazing).

Sight spells and potions would still exist, but their sight would be magical, either allowing the dungeoneer him/herself to briefly be able to see, or revealing the true path or true nature of an object.

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Re: Series 9 Cameos

Post by HobGoblin » Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:51 pm

I do like the idea of making the eyeshield an active object - exploring the ceiling is a neat touch. Not sure about the behind the back thing (wouldn't you just get the dungeoneer to turn around?) but the backwards directions is fun. Present the advisors with a flip of the actual image and watch the carnage! (There was a dizzy game with a couple of rooms the other side of a magic mirror which reversed the controls).

For s9 though I'm not sure the eye shield should be a permanent fixture. For new viewers there are plenty of gameplay elements to understand and the show shouldn't be too 'busy'. It's easier to introduce elements to an established format. Similarly, stick to the dungeon as a single location is easier to 'get' ie the challenge of KM Castle. The universe can be (re) expanded when everyone's up to speed (or not!).
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Re: Series 9 Cameos

Post by UnclePob » Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:31 pm

HobGoblin wrote:I do like the idea of making the eyeshield an active object - exploring the ceiling is a neat touch. Not sure about the behind the back thing (wouldn't you just get the dungeoneer to turn around?) but the backwards directions is fun. Present the advisors with a flip of the actual image and watch the carnage! (There was a dizzy game with a couple of rooms the other side of a magic mirror which reversed the controls).
Traditionally the camera view is fixed. Whenever the dungeoneer moves, he moves within that fixed space but the camera doesn't adjust to his position or facing. If he/she simply rotated 180 degrees in the COB, we'd have a dungeoneer facing us which dies pretty quickly as the advisors can't see the blades.

Since the dungeoneer him/herself is supposed to be blind, it doesn't follow that the advisers view should be based around physical position or rotation at all, though the Eye Shied does circumvent this, while introducing the "reversed directions" concept I posted about earlier. Simply spinning the camera behind the back of a dungeoneer who's turned around wouldn't have this additional obstacle.

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Re: Series 9 Cameos

Post by Peter » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:01 pm

Never mind a cameo, if the corridor of blades wasn't totally in the new series, my interest would drop by 50%!

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Re: Series 9 Cameos

Post by wombstar » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:21 pm

Like the idea of the eye shield being used for a 'closer' look.
I didn't like the use of spyglass in the Geek Week special, putting it under your helmet.

Thing is clue rooms are getting far too busy.
you get some food, a choice of three objects, spyglass and a scroll.
I want to see the scroll dropped with only brief appearances.

I think the trick is to not over do/use something and keep the quests varied.
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Re: Series 9 Cameos

Post by UnclePob » Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:47 pm

Peter wrote:Never mind a cameo, if the corridor of blades wasn't totally in the new series, my interest would drop by 50%!
I think it's safe to say the popularity and notoriety of that room pretty much guarantees that the concept will resurface as a fixture in a new series. Whether the Corridor of Blades will return in it's original form is the real question.

Time and technology has moved on, and I think we can look forward to some improvements and alterations - for example the legendary vertical blades that never happened could finally become reality.

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Re: Series 9 Cameos

Post by HobGoblin » Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:07 pm

UnclePob wrote:

[quoteTraditionally the camera view is fixed. Whenever the dungeoneer moves, he moves within that fixed space but the camera doesn't adjust to his position or facing. If he/she simply rotated 180 degrees in the COB, we'd have a dungeoneer facing us which dies pretty quickly as the advisors can't see the blades.

Since the dungeoneer him/herself is supposed to be blind, it doesn't follow that the advisers view should be based around physical position or rotation at all, though the Eye Shied does circumvent this, while introducing the "reversed directions" concept I posted about earlier. Simply spinning the camera behind the back of a dungeoneer who's turned around wouldn't have this additional obstacle.][/quote]

I understand that the advisors will see the blades via the eye shield but why can't the dungeoneer face the rear while holding the shield in front of them? That way the directions wouldn't be backwards.

Apologies if I'm misunderstanding you - it's been a long week :)
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Re: Series 9 Cameos

Post by wombstar » Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:12 pm

Do we all agree the Reach wand should be set on fire? 8)
The idea of it was interesting and I guess it provided a few unique puzzles, but as a viewer I found it so boring and slow to watch them try an navigate it around.

Maybe a one off clue item is better suited to add variation.
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Re: Series 9 Cameos

Post by UnclePob » Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:32 pm

HobGoblin wrote:I understand that the advisors will see the blades via the eye shield but why can't the dungeoneer face the rear while holding the shield in front of them? That way the directions wouldn't be backwards.

Apologies if I'm misunderstanding you - it's been a long week :)
I was thinking towards the backwards directions being the whole point, though you've just pointed out the one stumbling block with that concept. For this idea to work there would need to be a genuine reason why the dungeoneer can't simply turn around and tackle the the problem that way, and I can't tbink of one :)

Since posting that idea I also realised that if the dungeoneer were to simply rotate the shield round his arm so that it still faces outwards when held to his back, the shield (and therefore the video feed) would be upside-down. To get the shield to be the right way around he/she would have to take the shield off his arm, flip it over and then put it back on - a fiddly process that he or she simply might not have the time to actually perform.

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