In situations of people being allowed to "cheat death" when it appears others were denied that opportunity, it might also be worth considering what might have gone on that didn't make the final edit - who knows how often teams that were harshly treated might have made almighty blunders that had to be cut from the programme? I'd imagine their general demeanour off-camera might play a reasonable part in determining whether or not the producers would be willing to cut them a little slack!

I think nightmare should have worked like this.

Level 1/2 Allow one wrong item on each level and one wrong riddle, dont leave unpunished but just make it harder, eg. a item is needed to use the main entrance to level2 the team dont have it so instead of killing them off they have to go through 2 or 3 more rooms to get to an alternative entrance to level 2. Killing teams off for one wrong riddle is very harsh, on S3 I see some teams get the same info for 2 right answers as those with 3, likewise sometimes 1 right answer is treated the same as 2, whats harsh is sometimes for 2 right answers you only get very basic info. With merlin he asks 2 questions, if only 1 right I think a spell should be given but as punishment when meeting him again on L3 he should make it harder to get his help.

On S8 Team 1s death was very harsh as they had motley who just seemed to be completely useless, one wrong item on L1=death not fair at all.

Normally the earlier quests in a season are much harder than the later quests.

This is clearly evident when you consider the fact none of the first three teams in any series went on to beat the dungeon. Some of these deaths were justifiable (in the fact that correct clue items were left behind or riddles were answered incorrectly) but then you have team deaths who were unfairly robbed. Looking at the first three teams of each quest only, the ones that spring to mind are:

Series 3 Team 2

Although McGrew pleaded for mercy, there was no further hint from Treguard for example about the best way to go about this. As a result the team were killed off in the next room.

Series 4 Team 1

Unlike the winning quests, they was no clue as to which spell the team should use against Mogdred. I personally feel that BUT was far too vague, as to me the spell could mean almost anything, and in a former quest of the previous series (Series 3 Team 7) the team cast TRANSFORM to get past Mrs Grimwold and Festus.

Series 6 Team 1

The team were virtually still on the causeway and only because one of Matt's feet was just an inch off were they killed. This is explained in more depth on the Series 6 Causeway thread.

Series 8 Team 2

This has already been explained before, but I agree: why did the team need a sight potion to successfully get past the Corridor of Blades when this obviously wasn't required in past series?

I may have an overall look at all team deaths, to decide whether they were fair or not when I get more time.

Just depended on the quest you got.

Normally the earlier quests in a season are much harder than the later quests.

I'm not sure what to make of the Great Causeway. Fortunately others are, and you may find this thread interesting: http://www.knightmare.com/forum/http://www.knightmare.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=1;action=display;threadid=1207

Ben, on the other hand, had got the scroll (by taking it from Ariadne's room, which was probably a lot easier than having to answer questions for it) and so did not need to be penalised for making a mistake. Coming hot on the heels of a winning team, Sofia's team was never likely to be let off if they made a mistake, and they paid for it in the end.

I just rewatched both and my opinion is Bens team of course only knew the first 2 digits, they got the 3rd and 4th right but had no clue what the 5th one was so just skipped it and walked straight forward withought waiting to find out, this was allowed by the production team.

Sofia probably also got the first 2 right anyway as the food was placed on the correct block but they would have had to guess the other 3 numbers. They froze up at that point tho, but I think they could have frozen because they were sitting waiting for the lifeforce to recharge after they picked up the food, I think this should have happened and they at least should have been allowed to guess the path.

When you watch KM closely you'll notice without doubt that some teams had much harder quests than other teams. I think that at least half of the 8 winning teams would not have won if they had of been given harder quests. For example :

Team 1 - Never had to face a level 3 clueroom or Medusa when they triumphed in series 2.

Ben's team- They never had to answer any riddles like the subsequent team did in L3. Also they never faced a clueroom in L3 when they won (series 6).

Barry's team- Were killed twice. In a fireball room and in the COB but they were let off the hook (series 7).

Dunstans team- This one is rather obvious (series .

Mind you I supposed that the producers had to slightly manipulate quests to make sure that there was NICELY-ROUNDED average of 1 winning team per season.

series 6 is on challenge right now.

I agree about bens team.

1 - On the l3 causeway the dropping sword didnt start until after they picked up the food, it then also dropped less platform then usual, this was the main reason they seemed to be so far ahead of the falling blocks. After spelling out find, the sword again on path was slow at dropping the blocks and allowed an extra drop. This team was fast but they did seem to be helped.

2 - taking the crown back to the team with critical lifeforce, the team werent guiding him in the tunnel its as if he knew where to go and the lifeforce should have ran out.

The team after bens team died on the l3 causeway.

1 - The sword started dropping immediatly.

2 - they got the food but the energy never recharged although they died anyway from the falling blocks.

There were also several riddles in Series 3 suggesting to teams which doorway to take (the Oracle to Leo, Hordriss to Julie); these teams both worked out the hint and took the correct doors, so didn't get killed off.

There was also the one with Motley to I can't remember who, where in the end he actually in a way said which door to take.

when was that death?

There's one in the first series where a team are told through a riddle from Folly that they should go right. They go left, and are blown up in a bomb room.

There were also several riddles in Series 3 suggesting to teams which doorway to take (the Oracle to Leo, Hordriss to Julie); these teams both worked out the hint and took the correct doors, so didn't get killed off.

also i wonder what happened to the missing series 1 footage of the last team in level 2. lots of the rooms were never seen as they took clue objects and then they were gone by level 3. i'd love to see all of their quest and see how well they used the objects. hmm fire bell....

So i take it you dont suspect the producers of manipulating things like i suggested.

I made an argument about the producers making it it harder for certain teams. Well something interesting has come to the fore which i forgot to mention.

If you watch KM you'll notice that on a couple of occasions (ESPECIALLY IN LATER SEASONS) teams took items from the clueroom and they never had to use them to get through the level. Theres something dodgy about that. Obviously one of the fundamental elements of KM is that you need to pick (the right) 2 clue objects to survive a level.So why were several teams able to complete a level without using a clue object.

It seems that a team may have blundered BUT the production team let them off for it and found a way of letting them complete the level anyway.

LETS HAVE SOME RESPONSE TO THIS. ANY ONE WITH ANY THEORIES ABOUT THIS OR INDEED DOES ANYONE (TIM CHILD) HAVE ANY ANSWERS TO THIS.

One possibility springs to mind. Take Julian's team in series 2. In Level One, the quill was never used - he left it on the side of the Wellway en route to Level Two. So, the quill in itself didn't really do anything. However, perhaps the fact that they were carrying it was the factor. If they'd taken the dagger, perhaps it would have scared off some of the characters they'd have met and therefore not got the information they needed? Perhaps it's a case of the choice of object not to take being important.

If you watch KM you'll notice that on a couple of occasions (ESPECIALLY IN LATER SEASONS) teams took items from the clueroom and they never had to use them to get through the level. Theres something dodgy about that. Obviously one of the fundamental elements of KM is that you need to pick (the right) 2 clue objects to survive a level.So why were several teams able to complete a level without using a clue object.

It seems that a team may have blundered BUT the production team let them off for it and found a way of letting them complete the level anyway.