Was it generally a slower pace? Yes, but I also feel in some ways it was perhaps more 'in depth' than previous series.

I think you have summed up what I have struggled to say for years about my mixed Series 4 feelings. I like it. I like it from a nostalgic point of view. And I still like it now for the atmosphere and feel of the dungeon. I like the ruined castles and outdoor locations. I like the mix of characters and the beginning of more plot-focussed quests (albeit still in its very early stages here).

But man, that SLOWNESS. It's SOOOO slow. And not just that, the QUIETNESS! The introduction of that atmospheric background music in S6 was a much-needed brainwave of someone's. And then there's the REPETATIVE-NESS. Three major flaws that really detract from an otherwise great series.

It's such a shame for me that a series which I love so much for SOME things, is ruined by those awful eyeshield sequences. We get it. It shows us the dungeoneer moving through the forest from place to place in a way that otherwise would be impossible to show. That's totally fine and a good idea. But do we really need (what feels like) 2 whole minutes of footsteps going up a path? Couldn't they have been shorter? Couldn't they have been quicker? Let alone the exact same sequence every time a new dungeoneer comes along.

(Just for clarity, all these questions are rhetorical. I understand the reasons why things were done. This is simply my 2022 opinion and frustrations on the subject).

By the way, I finally got round to trying out chat last night (albeit after nine)... 8 pm on Sundays isn't usually ideal for me but I might try again in the New Year.

Indeed, it looks like you joined on boxing day. The channel seems to have been unusually empty that day (for obvious reasons). At the moment in the usual time slot we're averaging about 5-10 people.

Yes, he did - I was offered Latin but opted for German instead at the time, with the European Union in mind... Not that my knowledge of German helped with German goblins or copper mines in our encounter with Dooris a little later on...

I took it personally at the time, but looking back at the overall picture and trajectory of education over the 20th century from today, I can see why Brother Mace might have made that remark...

By the way, I finally got round to trying out chat last night (albeit after nine)... 8 pm on Sundays isn't usually ideal for me but I might try again in the New Year.

It was great to read these reminiscences, Dux!

I agree. Knightmare was made to entertain us and the more continuing enjoyment we find in it, the better.

Best wishes for any upcoming battles in 2022

Very clever! And Brother Mace had your team down as boys who didn't understand Latin.

Best wishes for any upcoming battles in 2022,

Brett

I was 9 when it first aired, and even back then I remember the different theme music and the 'editing out' of the prisoner in the opening credits animation.

The new ante-chamber took me by surprise, as did Pickle.

People either liked or disliked the Eyeshield. I can go either way with it. I understand the purpose it served from a production point of view, but it did take me out of the moment, at least the first few times I saw it.

While I adored the Dungeons from series 1-3 and in many ways they had never changed, I also enjoyed the newer outdoor locations as it expanded the Knightmare 'Universe' somewhat.

I think it was always going to be difficult topping series 3, but I also think that series 4 as a whole more than holds its own.

Was it generally a slower pace? Yes, but I also feel in some ways it was perhaps more 'in depth' than previous series.

Having recently watched episode 1 again, I'm reminded how much I loved Treguard's opening speech.

For me, a great start to the series.

Series 4 may have ended poorly – I'll be accepting my Understatement of the Week Award in a Zoom ceremony later – but my word it started strongly. A wonderful opening from Treguard; a majestic new version of the theme music; a new character (and indeed double act) introduced without unnecessary ceremony; verbal and visual humour.

Helen, James, Rachel and Craig are the first mixed male and female team since Team 3 of the previous series.

When we see the Helmet of Justice before Treguard puts it on Helen, the nosepiece looks damaged.

When the Place of Choice's revolving disc was originally built to serve as the Spindizzy in Series 3 (assuming it wasn't built for some other purpose prior to that), I wonder if it was ever intended that dungeoneers would have to step onto it.

Although the photographic backdrops can't hold a candle to David Rowe's artwork, I've always found them otherworldly and immersive enough.

There are some top-notch lines in this episode. Treguard's description of Hordriss – "Doubly dangerous ... for being neither good nor bad. He doesn't even acknowledge the difference" – shows how valuable neutral characters were in Knightmare, both for us as watchers and for the teams, and what was lost when Hordriss stepped into Merlin's slippers in the later series.

Hordriss about Helen: "For one's purposes, one could have chosen something larger and somewhat more mature, but one is obliged to make do." For any HR professionals reading, I dare you to include that in your next acceptance letter to a trainee.

The 1989 in Roman numerals on the end board, observed on Challenge and present again on BritBox, would seem to be a production error.

Yes, the actual questions are pretty quickfire, which must have put you under pressure. You don't get long to confer.

What slows it down is the length of the scene, as a whole. It seemed to take a very long time to tell the team how to summon Dooris and then it seemed to drone for a long time before actually getting to the questions. Yes, the depressing voice didn't help.

I agree with you about the Weeping Doors. Not so slow when you're actually playing the game and under pressure to get the correct answers, but a bit of a drag to watch at home. If the misery-mood were changed to something more dynamic, it would perhaps have been more enjoyable viewing. At any rate, a bit of Synchrovox technology was somewhat interesting.

Best wishes,

Brett

It appears that Treguard ordered his men-at-arms to refurb the ante-room during the off-season and he has also gained an assistant, Pickle the elf, albeit on sufferance.

The place of choice was a precarious-looking opener. Stepping off the spindizzy onto those narrow walkways seemed quite tricky for the first test. It looked like Helen stumbled onto the path more by accident than design.

Really didn't like the new drawbridge door-monsters. They seemed an unnecessary addition to the clue-room guardians and really slowed the game down. They were also generally annoying.

Hordriss was on good form tho. Reassuring to see a familiar face in the midst of the changes. He offered the team a pact to retrieve an object for him. (A recurring theme in S4.)

Then the first major change: The eye-shield. Controversial opinion here, but i took an instant disliking to it and have never changed my mind since. The eye-shield sequences seemed very slow & long-winded and therefore took too much active game-time out of an episode.

In contrast, the dwarf tunnels in S3 fitted nicely into the look of the dungeon and generally only appeared for a few seconds here and there.

Next major change was that the dungeon had expanded and "gone outside" and they were using real footage rather than artwork. Another change which i never took to. It says so much about David Rowe's work that his artistic rooms in S1-3 were far more atmospheric than real castles.

There was a nice scene with Motley & Mellisandre.

The new level 1 clue-object guardian was good. A kind of tree-troll manifestation named Oakley, with a great voice provided by Clifford Norgate.

2/3 answers, but they received two helpful clues, which ensured they took the correct objects.

Time-out arrived before they had gone much further tho. An extremely slow-paced episode, even for a series opener. Unfortunately, this was to be the standard pace for a long time to come....

Team 1 seemed a competent team, no problems for them so far.

One new feature which i really liked was the status bar, which looked very cool.

I hadn't realised that Treguard's welcome speech in the Knightmare Live shows is adapted from the one after the opening titles of this episode.

.... I only just now realized what you mean. Wow. Impressive call-back though.

The sword froze after the 2.5 minutes - either the animation was on a loop (no supercomputers in the studio during Series 4) and the production team paused it, or it reached the end.

I think this first team of Series 4 are my personal favourite - obviously only if we have to exclude ourselves!

dunno why everyone says it is unworkable. get down and crawl! there easy sorted and if nto thought of then pretty high chance of dungeoneer death. or if they set up a ledge for the dungeoneer to walk on in the shape of that path then it would just be about timing as the dungeoneer wouldnt step off the bridge. seems such a shame that it wasnt used as it looks so cool

We had this room at the start of Level 3. It took us 2.5 minutes to get Giles halfway across the causeway - yes, crawling. The production team decided it was just too long; we offered to have another go at it but the floor manager was firm in his opinion that the room was unserviceable. I always thought the problem was the lack of turning space on the corners.

Then the Broadsword logo, which states the programme was made in, erm, 1989. Whoops.

I'm sure back in 1990 when it was originally shown on Children's ITV that the correct Broadsword 1990 production slide was used at the end of Episode 1, so I've no idea why a 1989 one should appear in the Challenge 2003 repeat of it, unless there is a slight problem with the master tapes or something? If you listen to the sword sound, it's out-of-sync with when the sword goes into the Broadsword logo, so I guess Challenge or someone just stuck it on at the end for some reason. I've always thought the 1990 Broadsword slide sounds a bit louder than the 1989 ones anyway. Also, a few other episodes of Series 4 during the Challenge repeat run had the Anglia production slide missing too, so perhaps there is something wrong with the master tapes. Still, it's only a minor quibble anyway though!...

So, onto...A FOREST?! THEY'RE IN A FOREST!! As viewers froth at the mouth in excitement/horror, Treguard explains how the dungeon's shifted, etc. The team seem slightly baffled at this amazing feat too, and ask Helen to watch out for a log on the ground. Surely they don't think it's a massive studio set or something?

Ah, some more familiar faces in the guise of the two Ms, Motley and Melly. At first they think Helen is a 'peasant' (one that's wearing a horny helmet, seemingly) before prattling on for a bit about an elf path. Melly, then Motley show us how to do it - skip round a stone twice, jaunt merrilly around a tree, and disappear through the other one (done by split-screen I guess, unless the actors spent 20 takes trying to jump and stopping exactly behind the tree at the same time). Helen follows...slowly, though things pick up after goblins are heard.

"Ok..." thinks our imaginary viewer. "I think I've got the gist of it now. You've got this elf guy as Treguard's assistant, these speaking doors as the wall monsters...hang on, WHO'S THAT?!" they cry, pointing at this tree that's suddenly sprouted a face, and for some reason, a Westcountry accent. They're in the 'clue room', though it's really a 'clue clearing', so I guess this tree guy is the actual wall monster replacement, making the Bore Monsters...pointless. Erm.

They get 2 right, take their items and leave. "It's a castle" exclaims one of the advisors, a little surprised, so Treguard explains it's the Fortress of Doom (great reading on 'Doom'). Helen-through-Eye-Shield gets to the door, slows down...and as she stops, so does the episode. Tis Time Out.

T&P do the first of their many "omg u watchers" banter, and the credits roll over a room we never see on the actual programme, ever - a zig-zag path with a giant swinging axe, which has a few aliasing problems but the reflection effects look great. Then the Broadsword logo, which states the programme was made in, erm, 1989. Whoops.

There we are, then - a massive shock to see so many things changed, with the minimalist of explanations given.

I'd certainly tune in next week.

I wasn't one of those watching this episode back in 1990, being 1-going-on-2 at the time, but I put myself in the mind of a fan watching it at the time. After three series of the norm, suddenly every dang thing changes in front of their eyes!

Though you wouldn't think that right at the start, with Treguard giving the series' second pre-credits sequence ("Looking for adventure, are you? Well, you've certainly come to the right place! cackle"). Then the familar Siriol opening sequence plays...though this is the first surprise, it's been re-edited to match with a more orchestral sounding theme-tune.

Then..."Hang on! Who's that elf guy? Did Treguard just call him Pickle? Hey, and the magic mirror's changed! There's some colourful lighting over the antechamber! Did I miss an episode or something?" Actually, that'd make a really great fanfic - 'Series 4 Episode 0', which has Treguard meeting Pickle, installing some fancy lighting, etc. It's just so weird having him, well, be there, as if it's some normal thing. Surely his appearance was trailed beforehand, or he appeared in the CITV studio?

The first team of this radically changed series appear as usual, but hang on, Treguard's fumbling around with the knapsack...there's a banana in there! If this was an American sitcom there'd be a mass "Oh-ho-ho!" from the audience, and a 'gulp' look from Pickle to the camera. Quickly discounting theories of Pickle being a grown-up Eric Wimp, the same ol' Helm of Just is placed on (it's this bit which appeared on those ad-break bumpers when shown on Sci-Fi, fact fans!) and the episode begins.

Dice room? No, the Spindizzy's back in a new surrounding, another new invention for this series - teams have a CHOICE which quest object they want, even if it's only between two! Pickle whispers that they should pick the Cup, for some reason (there's been no winners for two years, and neither of them were for the four main quest objects) and Helen magnificently traverses the Spindizzy with ease.

They then come to...a door. A talking door, named Dooris! ("I suppose you want me to open. Well, I can't!") It's a Door Monster, or should I say Bore Monster. Surprise dawns when it seems that this creature appears to have replaced Golgarach and the Brangwen-Shee, and fires out three riddles - well, not riddles, just True or False questions. They get them all right ("Oh dear, oh dear, this is terrible!) and Dooris...opens, contradicting what he said about a minute ago. Geezum, so far the only character to survive from Series 3 is Treguard. Will that change in the next room?

Ah, Hordriss! His hair's grown a bit from last year, and he seems to have shifted a little - in S3 he was on neither side, but was classified as a 'dark grey' by Treguard, but now he's simply neutral. So a 'neu' stance for Hordriss, then (ho ho!), he sets the team a challenge (on Challenge) to find a bracelet, which is a bit odd for such a wizard of his calibre. Maybe it's for Sidriss, someone we won't see for another two years but must be around. They debate on whether to trust him before saying 'yes', and he introduces them to a strange little contraption called the Eye Shield. If 1990 viewers aren't baffled already, this is the time - Treguard holds full knowledge of this contraption, also saying "Let's not forget the Opposition" which is probably the series' first reference to them ever. Helen puts the iShield (er, Eye Shield) on and walks out, and..."It sees!" cries Pickle, which is something I'm sure he'll never forget.

(continued in next post)

Anyhow, individual things I liked... the Spindizzy is a great way to start a quest... with a semblance of a possibility (yeah right!) of it all coming to a tragic end rather too soon. Oakley is a marvellous creation, Motley and Melly's banter is always nice to see and David Learner was, of course, great as Pickle. Apart from that, it was all rather slow but it's early days yet.

The best part of the whole thing, however, was the room over the end credits. I can remember eagerly awaiting its first appearance (probably in level three) but all to no avail. Perhaps it was unworkable... but still a nice tough ADDITIONAL task for an already marvellous third level (but let's not get ahead of ourselves...)

Notice how a s1-3 quest would have gone to midway through level 2 by now, but here we aren't even out of level 1 yet!

We'd have had a death by now, going by the first teams of the previous three series...

I love the way Helen just strolls over the spindizzy. Good job they can see the exit ledges.

Get used to this slower pace, it'll be here 'til the end of series 7...

Also notice how Hordriss repeats almost the same task to give in back-to-back episodes, albeit from another series. He asked for a small trinket inconveniently placed in the level in s3 ep16. Why doesn't he get it himself? It's not that far to walk, and if he knows whereabouts it is, well that's just being lazy.

I find this to be one of the cutest Motley and Mellisandre scenes. Their moments of play-time just make me smile a lot