by Pooka » Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:59 pm

Picklemyfav wrote:

I have just watched the whole of series 1 and wonder why they replaced Knightmare with a programme about a talking fish in a computer that seemed to talk in water who was in a spaceship and who wasn't an alien...

That was Virtually Impossible.

My seven year old self hasn't forgotten that fish. Shudders. Hope he was cookable. I still feel that i would have loved Knightmare more then that Virtually Impossible even as a seven year old. Knightmare would have made more sense. Some of the challenges in Virtually Impossible were good but i think it was missing something. Like a better back story for that fish for a start. I only remember seeing a couple of episodes of it. Mostly because i didn't trust that fish as it didn't make sense with the way it talked and believed rightly or wrongly that the fish had done away with his original human crew.

Art Attack was good. Singing Kettle News was good. Knightmare is up there with Raven. I loved Raven when it was on.

Virtually Impossible...... Just needed a lot more work done on it. A lot more. And that fish to make sense. Talking under water......what? Then seven year old me might have enjoyed it more. As it is... seven year old me......

if i had had seen Knightmare as a seven year old that is..... wants Knightmare more .......

As Knightmare makes sense.

I think looking back they rushed it through. That's why it made little sense.

But Knightmare is still better [my own opinion based of what i have seen so far of both programmes] at this point in time.

I might have liked Virtually Impossible if the fish hadn't spoiled it for me.

I have just watched the whole of series 1 and wonder why they replaced Knightmare with a programme about a talking fish in a computer that seemed to talk in water who was in a spaceship and who wasn't an alien...

That was Virtually Impossible. I actually quite liked it, although I suspect I'm in a bit of a minority there. There are a couple of threads about it - here and here are good places to look.

Just a thought about the fourth book. Maybe Pickle didn't know he was an elf at first. Maybe he was under a spell for a bit and Treguard freed him. Maybe after being with Treguard for a while he found out about his true nature. Then we see him on the show.

Another story needs written i feel........ to tie the books together with the show.

Did Knightmare have a comic? Called Knightmare with a picture of a Knight on the cover.

No official comic for Knightmare, although I do recall a few comic strips featuring in The Quest fanzine when Knightmare was originally shown on TV (the comic with the character Knightmare as a vigilante fighter is completely unrelated to the TV show).

Anyone know where you can get Knightmare books about?

As Canadanne has mentiuoned, Amazon or there's also the likes of Ebay, Awesome Books and World Of Books. The first six books can easily be purchased online for a few quid each, although the last book "Lord Fear's Domain" is a bit harder to find and therefore tends to be on sale via the same websites for a slightly higher price.

Breaking news just found out

Knightmare board game? Where?

Again, this was brought out around the time Knightmare was shown on TV. Copies usually appear on Ebay from time to time but when they do, you can usually expect to pay around £30 upwards for them.

I picked up the Knightmare books very cheaply on Amazon Marketplace a few years ago.

[Out of print.......WT......Why?...................]

Are they printing more Knightmare books in the future?

[Its like being born after Doctor Who ended then finding out about Doctor Who from your parents who watched it.] Ggggggrrrrrrrr some pesty Goblin's gonna pay for this.

[Before the remake happened of course. Can only hope that Knightmare gets a remake. ]

Discovered a cool second hand book in Otago Lane when i came home and checked online. Then found this comic called Knightmare. Didn't know the tv show had a comic i thought to myself at the time i best ask the others see if they did.

Did Knightmare have a comic? Called Knightmare with a picture of a Knight on the cover.

I have just watched the whole of series 1 and wonder why they replaced Knightmare with a programme about a talking fish in a computer that seemed to talk in water who was in a spaceship and who wasn't an alien who i feel done his human crew in before that series started ........ Bad choice i feel. That programme didn't make any sense to my logical mind and i was only seven then.

Still feel that fish was trouble. Knightmare would have made more sense. >

I also think that Lord Fear took the Dungeon at the point Knightmare ended and that other thing began. Treguard was helped to take back the dungeon from Lord Fear by the elf known as Pickle. Think the genie may have used her wishes at that point but haven't seen enough for her to decide what happened to her. Maybe Lord Fear took her prisoner.

After Treguard took the dungeon back the talking fish got fried in the local chippy and the replacement got canned. He then fell asleep waiting for someone to call.

Anyone know where you can get Knightmare books about? Any other second hand book shops in Ayrshire or Glasgow that you know of that i maybe haven't seen about?

Breaking news just found out

Knightmare board game? Where?

I have some questions about the first Knightmare novella.

So, the two things I'm wondering about at the moment are:

1. When Leahra was imprisoned by the Gruagach at Knightmare Castle, why was she concocting potions for him? The Gruagach got really mad when one of Vestan's henchmen spilt a few drops in the dungeon while bringing them to him. I can't quite imagine what these potions were for, or why the Gruagach couldn't make them himself.

2. What exactly is the significance of Treguard finding a Dunshelm medallion around Leahra's neck? Again it sends the Gruagach into a rage, for some reason. I can't see what it adds to the scene and I don't know if I'm missing something. (Can the villains at Knightmare Castle actually hear their conversation via the magic Eye, or does it only show images? I wouldn't have thought it transmitted sound, but the Gruagach knows that Treguard received Leahra's warning, even though she would have appeared to be a motionless corpse throughout the scene. I'm not sure if that's down to his psychic powers or what.)

Any thoughts?

I think maybe I understand (2) now, after re-reading that scene and thinking about it some more. If you recall, Treguard decides to return to England because "I have unfinished business there", i.e. he wants revenge on Vestan. When Leahra warns him that he's riding into a trap and he reacts very dismissively, she says "Do you think I spent my own life just to help you get your castle back? There is much more at stake than your lost birthright. [...] [The Gruagach's] evil must be overcome, or it will bring a darkness without dawn." Again Treguard basically says he doesn't care about "this Gruagach" and his schemes - obviously considers the matter none of his business - and tells her "I want only my home and my estate". He eventually shuts up and listens to her instructions, but even then he seems to find them absurd ("Where could I find a dragon in this day and age?")

After she's gone, he finds the Northguard medallion: "He knew that the emblem was the symbol of the Dunshelm clan and of their duties to the realm." I think Leahra wanted to remind him that he does have a responsibility to protect his country from the evils that may befall it. This ensures he not only takes her advice seriously, but is also open to Folly's later suggestion about becoming the new Dungeon Master, rather than simply reclaiming his property and then washing his hands of "the struggle against evil". The Gruagach is annoyed because Treguard has now been dissuaded from facing him unprepared.

I'm still puzzled by the potions thing, though...

(By the way, there are so many different conversations compiled into this one thread, do you think there ought to be a subforum for discussion of the books? I found a few other threads that might fit as well - here, here and here.)

Has any more thought been given towards creating a subforum for threads about the novellas / gamebooks?

I was under the impression that John Woodnutt was unable to continue playing the roles for health reasons, after which he sadly passed away.

Never heard that one, and it doesn't seem to fit the facts, because John Woodnutt's death wasn't until 2006, some fifteen years after he left the series. He appeared in quite a few other programmes in the intervening time as well - frequent guest on Paul Merton's solo show, and in Jeeves & Wooster and Harry's Mad, in the mid-90's. It would be odd if he had to stop doing Knightmare due to ill-health but still carried on doing all of that.

Pity they made no reference to their absence in series 5.

/begin Shameless Plug

If you would like that particular itch scratched, I highly recommend When Five Tribes Go To War. Set before and during Series 4, and transitions nicely between Merlin/Mogdred and the Lord Fear opposition.

/end Shameless Plug

Pity they made no reference to their absence in series 5.

I was under the impression that John Woodnutt was unable to continue playing the roles for health reasons, after which he sadly passed away. I've not heard of those characters being axed for any reason other than Woodnutt simply not being available, so this is news to me.

I've never heard that he left for health reasons, and he continued acting for another decade after leaving Knightmare, so it seems unlikely. The only explanation I've ever seen is the one quoted by HStorm, from Tim Child's History of Knightmare. ("The Merlin/Mogdred scenario was exhausted (in any case I had always found it annoyingly derivative) and I was convinced that the drama game engine of Knightmare must be driven by a really solid baddy.")

But I was surprised to read about Robin Hood in the book, and more surprised they didn't have him in the series itself with season 4 and 5 taking place outside in the woods quite often,

I was trying to figure out the origin of "glaschwights", as Google comes up with zero results that aren't related to this book. The nearest I could find was that Glaschú is the Gaelic name for Glasgow... are they Scottish ghosts??

The Medusa/Gorgon did appear in the series after all, and of course Merlin.

It's such a pick n' mix when you study it.

My initial reading was that the Gruagach/KM Castle was indeed Hades, with the dungeon being Tartarus. Perhaps Leahra is a play on Lyra - as in the lyre of Orpheus which beguiled Hades. The city of sticks could be a play on Styx ie Treguard traveling to the underworld to gain something to defeat The Lord of the underworld.

There are also parallels between Treguard's quest to defeat the Gruagach and Perseus' quest to defeat medusa - Perseus collected a sword, mirrored shield etc.

Gruagach is a Gaelic word for a brownie or hobgoblin (in the traditional sense of small goblin rather than the Tolkien/KM sense of large goblin) and doesn't really fit with the devil-like antagonist. It is, though, associated with Northern England and the Scottish Borders.

But none of this really hangs together as a direct interpretation, though someone with a better knowledge of classical mythology and folklore might be able to come up with something! But the KM world seems to be a mish mash of Greek myths, Arthurian legend and English folklore (the Robin Hood bit!) and it's probably best just to take it on its own terms.

also wouldn't mind seeing a book forum

They usually have copies on Amazon (I buy extra copies to give away to people )

They come up on eBay as well - I picked the first four books up (separately) for around a tenner total, including P&P, a couple of months back. Although that was before the new episode was announced, which may have spiked prices.

I've got hold of the first book, for about a total of £2.50 on ebay.

I saw one go the other week for about £4. I'm kinda pleased because I received it in the post today and it's be pretty good condition, couldn't get much better really for it's age, I was worried they might be all bent and creased.

It's quite a long book, might take me a month to read

When I was a kid I loved those choose your own adventure book, I use to have loads of the Lone wolf series, unfortunately my teachers absolutely hated them, got to the point where they wouldn't let write book reviews on them. I thought they were a great way to get kids reading who didn't really like reading.

They usually have copies on Amazon (I buy extra copies to give away to people )

They come up on eBay as well - I picked the first four books up (separately) for around a tenner total, including P&P, a couple of months back. Although that was before the new episode was announced, which may have spiked prices.

They really are worth reading. Well, the first four are; the later two just make me sneer

I don't know about the fourth. #1-3 are fairly good, but I didn't finish Sorcerer's Isle.

The original line of four books was clearly superior. While still not exactly anything to challenge Tolstoy, they were a more satisfying read, and the stories were set firmly in their own era, with no links to the future - Treguard clearly had no knowledge in them of our own time.

Which is odd in the case of the fourth. #1-3 seemed like they were set before the TV show, but by bringing in Pickle and having Treguard live in the Middle East for years (!), #4 had to be "between series" of the show.

One interesting peculiarity in the books is the portrayal of Pickle; he is always described as being an imp. On one occasion, a character says, "You look like an elf!" to which Pickle replies, "You look like a baboon!" I don't know whether that exchange was meant to be defiance on the part of Dave Morris against the series, by insisting that Pickle is not an elf.

Also, he's stored in a bottle for an extended time in book 4, ala Majida's introduction on the TV show.

I though Lord Fears Domain was just a puzzle book?

The puzzles are sort of woven into a storyline.

Yes, they're very internally consistent

Except the timeline - the fourth book totally contradicts the earlier ones!

They really are worth reading. Well, the first four are; the later two just make me sneer

There were actually three later ones (the 'Yearling' titles they were called) - The Forbidden Gate, The Dragon's Lair, and Lord Fear's Domain. But I agree they were quite infantile, and if there's one of them you haven't read, believe me, you've missed very little.

I though Lord Fears Domain was just a puzzle book? That's the one I don't have. (Well, I do now, thank you Amazon and your penny books!)

The original line of four books was clearly superior. While still not exactly anything to challenge Tolstoy, they were a more satisfying read, and the stories were set firmly in their own era, with no links to the future - Treguard clearly had no knowledge in them of our own time.

Yes, they're very internally consistent and actually quite sophisticated, in their own way. Treguurd is, inevitably I suppose, a much more rounded figure. I even had to look up a couple of words, which hardly ever happens to me nowadays! ('Flensing' and 'miniver'; not bad for a kid's book

Canadanne - I might be wrong but I get the feeling Dave Morris would engage with you on such queries. Might be worth asking him via Twitter or his blog...?

I suspect Dave Morris wouldn't have the answers as it was Tim Child who wrote the original story, and even he might not remember the details after so long!