<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" version="2.0"><channel><title><![CDATA[Series 5 Episode 14]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">They're buying a CHANGE spell from Julius Scaramonger, not make a difference because they possibly screwed up in the clue room earlier.</p>
<p dir="auto">Oh dear the CHANGE spell backfired LOL, well they are royally screwed now arent they, and they cant get the firestone out of the ice (royally screwed doesnt cover it really).</p>
<p dir="auto">Theyve met brother mace and they are convincing him that Chris isnt a goblin.  Apparently they need motleys clown on a stick to give to motley (i was right then) lol well not much else to say is there lol</p>
<p dir="auto">Ah heres the blocker, they need the password and I dont think they have it, well that was the blockers breakfast sorted</p>
<p dir="auto">DISMISS</p>
<p dir="auto">End of Part 1</p>
<p dir="auto">They made too many mistakes, buying they CHANGE spell, leaving Motleys stick for example, they did a good job convincing Brother Mace though.  Cant believe they thought the floor puzzle solution would get them past the blocker, I guess they may had got the password from brother mace if Chris wasnt a goblin</p>
]]></description><link>https://www.knightmare.com/forum/topic/704/series-5-episode-14</link><generator>RSS for Node</generator><lastBuildDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2026 08:06:48 GMT</lastBuildDate><atom:link href="https://www.knightmare.com/forum/topic/704.rss" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml"/><pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:14:55 GMT</pubDate><ttl>60</ttl><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Series 5 Episode 14 on Tue, 14 Jul 2020 19:38:57 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">Nice one, i shall look out for that.</p>
<p dir="auto">I like those little connections to earlier series that sometimes appear in the background.</p>
]]></description><link>https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/51659</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/51659</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Morghanna]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2020 19:38:57 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Series 5 Episode 14 on Fri, 10 Jul 2020 19:32:05 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<p dir="auto">*Going off on a tangent for a mo, noticeable that Scaramonger also had the original &amp; genuine magic-shield for sale on his table. Would have been useful if the medusa was anywhere ahead. *</p>
</blockquote>
<p dir="auto">You can see the magic shield making cameo appearances all the way up to Series 8! (Though I won't say where exactly so as not to spoil future episodes for you.    )</p>
]]></description><link>https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/51648</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/51648</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[JamesA]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2020 19:32:05 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Series 5 Episode 14 on Thu, 09 Jul 2020 15:42:12 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">Wow. Crazy ending to a quest! .</p>
<p dir="auto">It seemed as tho team 7 had missed their chance with their clue choices at the end of episode 13.</p>
<p dir="auto">Offered a choice of two spells by Scaramonger, <em>but didn't think to ask what they did....</em>  They bought the "CHANGE" spell.</p>
<p dir="auto">*Going off on a tangent for a mo, noticeable that Scaramonger also had the original &amp; genuine magic-shield for sale on his table. Would have been useful if the medusa was anywhere ahead. *</p>
<p dir="auto">They tried to use the spell on the ice-bound firestone, but it turned Chris into a goblin.</p>
<p dir="auto">Nice scene with Brother Mace (great reference to his experience in Dickon's quest) who wanted to help, but required Motley's <em>marotte</em>.  Without it, they had to continue unaided....</p>
<p dir="auto">As a result of all this they didn't get the password for the blocker. Tried to use the causeway combination instead and messed it up anyway.  Gulp!</p>
<p dir="auto">So many theories about what the correct choice of objects &amp; spell would have been. It's difficult to decide, but i guess that Motley's marotte would have been an object to choose and that the green gem was a blind as they needed the red one.</p>
<p dir="auto">Team 8 were a very slow paced team.</p>
<p dir="auto">Chose the correct objects: silver &amp; candle. Then used the silver to purchase the key from Scaramonger.</p>
<p dir="auto">So far they appear to be a one-man quartet....</p>
]]></description><link>https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/51644</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/51644</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Morghanna]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2020 15:42:12 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Series 5 Episode 14 on Mon, 18 Nov 2019 11:45:25 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">To clarify:</p>
<p dir="auto">The scroll was definitely no real help at all.</p>
<p dir="auto">They needed the silver to trade with Scaramonger to get the spell and most definitely not the potion or anything else.</p>
<p dir="auto">They also needed the Gem to CHANGE with them upon receiving said spell and encountering the Firestone.</p>
<p dir="auto">So...Motley and his folderol wasn't really needed - perhaps only persuasion instead - and brought in only to throw off the scent of a badly executed but well intentioned plot twist.</p>
]]></description><link>https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/51240</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/51240</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Mashibinbin]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Mon, 18 Nov 2019 11:45:25 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Series 5 Episode 14 on Sun, 17 Nov 2019 15:57:34 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<p dir="auto">I've been rewatching and rethinking this clear-as-mud episode recently. There will be some new opinions to share in due course.</p>
</blockquote>
<ol>
<li>
<p dir="auto">When the team read the scroll telling them that 'Fair trade is no robbery', the only information they had was that they needed magic and a red gem. On the table was a green gem. They should have taken it. Not doing so put them in losing status.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p dir="auto">Aesandre had set a trap and Julius Scaramonger was part of that trap (whether by bribery or coercion). To play that part, he had to sell Chris something that would impede or doom the quest.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p dir="auto">Scaramonger gave a description of the Potion of Impurity that indicated it would not meet the team's needs:</p>
</li>
</ol>
<p dir="auto">"[You want] spells? Ooh, magic ... you don't want to bother with that stuff ... I would be doing you a very big disfavour if I sold you any of that stuff ... let me sell you this Potion of Impurity."</p>
<p dir="auto">Had they been swayed towards it (or indeed towards the sword that Scramonger also offered), Treguard or Pickle would have swayed them back.</p>
<ol start="4">
<li>
<p dir="auto">When the team reached the frozen firestone and cast the spell, it would have swapped the gems around AND turned him into a goblin. As we know from Tim Child's articles and interviews, he had sworn off the 'wastage' of earlier series and the Chroblin scenario (as Billy Hicks called it) was not going to go unused.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p dir="auto">The material written for Brother Mace (i.e. recalling his lizard experience) is too good for it to have been optional. I can't accept that the scene wouldn't have happened, but I suspect that he wouldn't have said all the Motley stuff. Perhaps he'd have turned Chris back himself, though the idea of any non-magical character undoing cast-locked sorcery is not easy to imagine.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p dir="auto">To get the most out of the Chroblin-not-in-losing-status situation, perhaps there'd have been an encounter with an oblivious Skarkill - or with Sylvester Hands, who was supposedly on Chris' trail in Level 1 but was not seen. (Indeed, we saw Hands fooled by a disguised dungeoneer Chris one series later ("Mrs. Witchy") and by another disguised dungeoneer in Series 8 (Daniel and the Fearsome potion).)</p>
</li>
<li>
<p dir="auto">I suspect there'd have been no Blocker encounter. Even if there had been and Chris hadn't survived, Treguard wouldn't have said that Motley would have given them the password. To do so would have been a false post-mortem, like Series 4 Quest 5 where he implausibly suggested they needed magic to cross the Block &amp; Tackle.</p>
</li>
</ol>
<p dir="auto">In having a dungeoneer unexpectedly turned into and locked into a goblin form, the production team had come up with a great idea. It's a shame that they didn't allow themselves, the questing team and the watchers to get more out of it. The flawed 'disembark Smirkenorff to re-embark Smirkenorff' premise and the harsh four-clue-object table detracted from it.</p>
<p dir="auto">As for the clue scroll accompanying those four clue objects, it is so ambiguous that the team may well have been better off without it. No other scroll came close in unfair vagueness: I recorded all 70+ in the Interactive Knightmare Lexicon <a href="http://interactive.knightmare.org.uk/lexicon/entry/scroll" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow ugc">here</a> to prove it. For example, Barry's team in Series 7 had 'Rock and Roll, hot and Slow!' to help them choose two clue objects - from a smaller selection (3) - on a lower level (3).</p>
]]></description><link>https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/51239</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/51239</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Drassil]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sun, 17 Nov 2019 15:57:34 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Series 5 Episode 14 on Sun, 16 Sep 2018 13:33:09 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">It sounds like Chris. Knightmare was first and foremost an adventure for the contestants, so the production team wouldn't have wanted to cut one of them out completely for an extended period - even if, for practical reasons, they couldn't put Chris himself in the goblin costume.</p>
<p dir="auto">I've been rewatching and rethinking this clear-as-mud episode recently. There will be some new opinions to share in due course.</p>
]]></description><link>https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/51016</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/51016</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Drassil]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2018 13:33:09 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Series 5 Episode 14 on Thu, 13 Sep 2018 18:15:00 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">When Chris becomes a goblin and speaks in that hilarious high-pitched voice, is that Chris' voice that has been modified by the production team or has it been dubbed by someone else?</p>
]]></description><link>https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/51015</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/51015</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[PookasRule]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2018 18:15:00 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Series 5 Episode 14 on Mon, 01 Feb 2016 20:31:01 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">I've never noticed this before, but does Treguard stop Pickle from swearing at the start of this episode?! It sounds like he's about to say "Pretty f***ing strange if you ask me" or something along those lines!</p>
]]></description><link>https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/48927</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/48927</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Canadanne]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2016 20:31:01 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Series 5 Episode 14 on Sat, 09 Jan 2016 03:02:36 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">I wonder if the "fair trade" clue meant they were supposed to take the green gem, and use the silver to buy the SWITCH spell, which would swap the gems round so that Christopher had the firestone and the green one was left in the block of ice. It kind of makes sense, but then it also seems unlikely, because the goblin transformation effect would have gone unused (presumably that was the "trap" mentioned in the spyglass scene), and they wouldn't have been able to pick up Motley's bauble or had any reason to call him. So who would have told them the Blocker password? Or would they not have encountered the Blocker in that case?</p>
<p dir="auto">It really is weird how the Descender is apparently not an option for changing levels in this quest, especially after Lord Fear was expecting them to reach the Gate Tower in Level 1, only for them to fly on Smirkenorff instead. How is Aesandre getting in and out of Level 2 to set her trap, if she walks instead of travelling by magic?! I can't imagine Smirky giving her a lift.</p>
]]></description><link>https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/48868</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/48868</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Canadanne]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2016 03:02:36 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Series 5 Episode 14 on Sun, 13 Nov 2011 20:17:38 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">I love the advisors' bemusement over Chris wanting to stay a goblin, especially the one who goes "Fine, if you wanna be like that"!</p>
<p dir="auto">"The score doesn't matter, Pickle, it's playing the game that counts!" Yeah right Treguard, since when did you believe that?!</p>
<p dir="auto">Having a flight sequence into Wolfenden throws up a couple of continuity goofs... the shield and boxes under the Market Hall are clearly not there when Smirky lands, but have appeared by the time Duncan walks over to them! (Also the square is deserted, yet a couple of minutes later Julius Scaramonger is serving a customer there.)</p>
<p dir="auto">Not sure why Pickle says "There, master, I told you it was risky!" and makes them hurry out after using the spyglass. There was no indication that Lord Fear had noticed them spying at all!</p>
]]></description><link>https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/41658</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/41658</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Canadanne]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sun, 13 Nov 2011 20:17:38 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Series 5 Episode 14 on Fri, 12 Aug 2011 18:15:39 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<p dir="auto">As I said in a post earlier this year: 'The whole goblin transformation 'subplot' seems too unique and detailed for it to have been merely a 50-50 possibility; and a scene where a dungeoneer enters a Level 2 room, casts [a spell] to de-ice a firestone, picks it up then walks out, seems too straightforward'.</p>
</blockquote>
<p dir="auto">If I'd thought of it at the time, I would have added: And besides, I doubt the production team would have sought to repeat what we had already seen with the Shield at the end of Ben's quest, where it was only justifiable as a sort of post-final-encounter formality.</p>
<p dir="auto">A few thoughts about Impurity. (By Calvin Klein.) Scaramonger's description of it as a goblin deterrent implies to me that there would have been a goblin element to its effect, i.e. the same as the spells. The recommendation to sprinkle it, when by definition a potion should be drunk, could also be taken as evidence that it's a suspicious item. The drinking of potions by dungeoneers had its tentative introduction with the bizarrely labelled Shield in Series 6 (unless we count Dickon's anti-poison in Series 4), before Knightmare went potion potty in Series 7. Also, if we consider the consequences of the team buying Impurity, should we not also consider what would have happened if the team had bought the sword?</p>
<p dir="auto">On reflection, I'm not entirely at ease with the idea of a jester somehow being able to undo cast-locked Opposition magic (in addition to all the other saving-the-day that the team's predicament seemingly demanded of him), even though Brother Mace presented it as the only option. This is beyond anything we saw Motley do. He is a man who made it clear in his first series that he wanted "no truck" with the Opposition, and had enough trouble avoiding their schemes as it was!</p>
<p dir="auto">Anyway, after thinking myself into and out of knots over this for years, I've come up with a rundown of how I wish the latter part of this quest had gone.</p>
<p dir="auto">At the end of Level 1, Chris reaches the Gate Tower, as per Lord Fear's spyglass remark. The Gatemaster allows him into the Travelling Gate with instructions on how many floors to count before commanding it to halt.</p>
<p dir="auto">Chris finds the Level 2 clue room. As in various other S5 quests, there are three clue objects and not four. Reading the clue scroll, the team decide to take the silver (as implied by "trade") and the green gem ("fair trade and "no robbery" suggesting some kind of straight swap of gemstones may be possible). The spyglass scene includes an explanation of the frozen firestone, the need for strong magic to free it and the dungeoneer's need for it.</p>
<p dir="auto">Chris meets Julius Scaramonger and the encounter plays out as before.</p>
<p dir="auto">Chris finds the frozen firestone and the scene runs as it did.</p>
<p dir="auto">Chris meets Skarkill again. In a moment of continuity platinum, he is nursing stings and still has the firestone he took from Chris on Level 1. Chris gets to put his goblin guise to use as he thought he might, chatting with the unsuspecting Goblin Master and persuading him to swap gemstones. It ends with the amazing situation of a team having acquired the same clue object twice over. (Thank you to Selphie for inspiring this with her earlier comment.)</p>
<p dir="auto">Chris meets Brother Mace and must explain who he really is. He has to answer the questions Mace would have asked him on Level 1. Mace confesses that his "Staff of Saint Smasher" in fact has some magic in that he may be able to use to banish the cast-locked spell. It's déja vu as a monk strikes a dungeoneer with a staff, but this time the outcome is far less lethal, and Chris' goblin form is "dismissed". Treguard regards the staff, or "mace" as he calls it, with great interest. At some point during the encounter, Brother Mace offers Chris the grapes rather than waiting for him to ask, thereby ensuring that his final words on Knightmare are not "well, you might as well, yes".</p>
<p dir="auto">As in Quest 3, there is no Level 2 Blocker. (It may only have been in Chris' already-complex L2 because of his losing status anyway.)</p>
<p dir="auto">Chris tackles the colour-coded causeway. If he succeeds, Smirkenorff is waiting for him through the next portal, and will fly him to Level 3 for a firestone.</p>
<p dir="auto">I feel better for writing that.</p>
]]></description><link>https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/40961</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/40961</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Drassil]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Fri, 12 Aug 2011 18:15:39 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Series 5 Episode 14 on Fri, 22 Apr 2011 12:00:25 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">Having rewatched this, I'm pretty sure Chris wasn't supposed to win. It makes me wonder, though, what SWITCH would have done. My guess - although it's a rudimentary one - is that SWITCH may have switched the properties of the ice block - from solid to liquid or something - and allowed the team to get the firestone. That's the only use of it I can think of. However, if they did do that and it worked that way, the whole subplot with Chris being a goblin, and the subsequent scene(s) with Mace (and Motley) would be virtually eliminated. So I fail to see how they could have got the firestone!</p>
<p dir="auto">As many people have already said in this thread, Motley's role in the quest would have been to give the password, and/or effect a change back to the human form - although nevertheless, they still didn't have the firestone. Maybe it was a red herring, or as I said, maybe they just weren't meant to win! A bit mean of the production team to do this, as it was a mystifying Level 2 all the way through, really!</p>
<p dir="auto">Sad to see Mace go. It was a great scene and even a hearken back to Series 4 with the lizard fiasco, as David points out - Mace seems the continuity cop of this entire series, actually, having mentioned Merlin in its earlier stages. Trivia Fact-O-Time: out of a poll we held at the RPG Series 7 filming, Mace was voted our favourite character, judging by the amount of times he was placed on our sheet (we used AV, happily enough) - perhaps the only PTB character to be in our top three! And talking of top threes, he was my third choice - always has been one of my favourites. A very good end scene, if he had to go at all.</p>
]]></description><link>https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/40487</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/40487</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Pooka]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Fri, 22 Apr 2011 12:00:25 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Series 5 Episode 14 on Mon, 10 Jan 2011 01:40:48 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">I honestly don't think they were ever supposed to get the firestone. The entire goblin plot was so obviously planned in advance (including Chris choosing to "stay a goblin" - like S8 Daniel having to insist on using the Fearsome potion), I'm pretty sure the firestone and the similar spells were there purely to get them into that bizarre situation. I have no doubt the same thing would have happened if they'd bought SWITCH instead - the illusion of choice simply provides an explanation for this strange "accident", as the team and viewers will assume they must have picked the wrong spell. In fact their only mistake was not taking Motley's stick to gain his help, which is a little unfair without any clues, but then again I personally felt it was quite an obvious item to take. Has that thing <em>ever</em> been on a clue table for no reason?</p>
<p dir="auto">The scroll is definitely confusing, though (as so many of them are!), and of course there's no way of knowing how they would have proceeded to Level 3. I can only assume Elita was mistaken or lying about Smirky being their only option (again, all part of the elaborate setup for the goblin incident). Perhaps Motley would have told them where to find the Descender or something.</p>
<p dir="auto">The theory about needing to buy the potion is interesting, but I don't think it's right. It just seems to be JS doing his usual routine of trying to sell them useless things first (thus further convincing them to buy a plot device... I mean spell), and the "impurity" bit makes it a fairly obvious red herring. As I said above, I'm sure the production team were determined to show off the goblin trick and everything else was simply leading up to it.</p>
]]></description><link>https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/39912</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/39912</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Canadanne]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Mon, 10 Jan 2011 01:40:48 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Series 5 Episode 14 on Sat, 29 Nov 2008 10:41:40 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">I've really enjoyed reading this thread with everyone's opinions on how level 2 could have been different . I'm afraid I don't have any detailed analysis to offer, but my tuppence worth</p>
<p dir="auto">My reading of the scroll was just to take the silver, if it was a cryptic clue about spells then I completely missed it too. The choice of the clue objects between the feather and the fool on a stick isn't that easy; if Treguard had done some hinting maybe about how Motley had helped them before so could prove useful if they helped him out again then fair enough (maybe this did happen and never made it into the final edit), but given that choice I'm not sure what I would have taken. I think the painful part of this is that the team so nearly took it but then didn't. I think Chris is judged a bit harshly in this; everyone complains when the dungeoneers just do what they're told and have to be prompted to say and do anything and then when this lad has his own opinions on their quest it's his fault for taking the wrong item <em>shrugs</em>.</p>
<p dir="auto">I hadn't thought about if the spells were the right thing to buy from JS before, it's a very interesting point. However it is quite in character for JS to attempt to sell the team something of no use and then have to be pressed before he offers them something that they do need. I think the CHANGE and SWITCH spells would have done exactly the same thing and Chroblin was meant to happen, so the main issue to me is how would they get out of it and how would they get the firestone. We know that Motley could have changed them back. I'm also going to speculate that maybe, since they were returning to where they started from in level 2, they might come back through into that room at the end of the level and by that point have the magic they needed to free the gem. I know it's a horrible idea because the only was is meant to be forwards, but this level 2 story was based upon the awful concept of returning back to where they started from. Throughout the whole of level 2 I did keep thinking that it would have solved all their problems if they'd managed to hold onto their firestone from level 1.... (I do know you can't keep objects between levels ).</p>
<p dir="auto">I didn't really like this incarnation of level 2 at all. Returning to the beginning of the level grates against everything the adventurer's code is meant to say. Chroblin was funny for about the first 2 minutes, then I felt a bit sorry for the team who seemed to have one of the most drawn out deaths in the shows history and one that made them seem a lot sillier then they were. A lot of the younger teams have seemed to get a lot more hints then this bunch did. Have to agree with Drassil (albeit over 2 years later) that this level 2 felt like it was made for a different quest, but seemed a bit too tempting for the production team to use. In my mind this again backs up that the dungeoneer would have turned into a goblin no matter what magic or item they'd bought from JS.</p>
<p dir="auto">The blocker death is one of my favourites from this season  I remember it from when I was little and being suspicious of innocent looking walls for a while afterwards!</p>
]]></description><link>https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/37399</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/37399</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Selphie]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 10:41:40 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Series 5 Episode 14 on Fri, 11 Jul 2008 14:10:05 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<p dir="auto">I am so perplexed by this quest. I wish I knew exactly what was 'supposed' to have happened on Level 2. Although I feel like I'm about three years late with this post, here, for what it's worth, are my thoughts.</p>
<p dir="auto">One point that hasn't been raised in this thread is that during the spyglass scene in the previous episode, Lord Fear and Aesandre discussed a 'trap' being set. This suggests to me that the team was meant to use a spell on the frozen firestone (Treguard prompts them to ensure this happens), and that the spell was meant to turn the dungeoneer into a goblin. Thus the transformation would have occurred whichever spell they'd bought: in my opinion, CHANGE and SWITCH are largely synonymous, and the rather unclear scroll clue, 'fair trade is no robbery', referred only to the silver, because it's just too ambiguous to indicate one spell or the other. As I said in a post earlier this year: 'The whole goblin transformation 'subplot' seems too unique and detailed for it to have been merely a 50-50 possibility; and a scene where a dungeoneer enters a Level 2 room, casts SWITCH to de-ice a firestone, picks it up then walks out, seems too straightforward'.</p>
<p dir="auto">Although the team have been criticised as dense, their only real mistake was not taking Motley's bauble, and considering that they had a vague scroll clue and four objects to choose from (Team 4, who went on to win, had only three Level 2 clue objects to choose from), it's maybe not as stupid a mistake as it may seem. Because of what happened to Chris, and the manner of his demise, the team ended up looking even more foolish than perhaps they were. That's just my opinion.</p>
<p dir="auto">But that speculation by no means solves all the puzzles. Assuming Chris had taken the bauble, summoned Motley, been turned back and got the password, how would he then have got the firestone which Elita said he needed? Surely Motley couldn't have been expected to provide that too, simply for being summoned? And so we're left with no real idea of how the team would have completed Level 2.</p>
<p dir="auto">I'm not comfortable with the whole idea of Chris having to return to where he entered Level 2 in order to get to Level 3. To me, it's a little too close to breaking the hallowed 'only way is onward, there is no turning back' dictum; plus, the idea of a dungeoneer having two Smirkenorff flights is something I find less than credible. What's more, it throws up a continuity error: during the Level 1 spyglass scene, Lord Fear said he wanted Chris stopped before he could reach the Gate Tower, i.e. inter-level descendor. But if he's doing all his level-to-level travelling on Smirky, he wouldn't be visiting the Gate Tower anyway. From this inconsistency, and the way that the three characters seen in Level 1 of the quest appeared/would have appeared on Level 2 (Elita, Mace, Motley), and the way that the team was required to find a clue object that had already featured in Level 1 (firestone), I suspect that the Level 2 was originally scripted for a different quest, but put into Quest 7 for some reason. It all adds to the confusion.</p>
</blockquote>
<p dir="auto">I am very glad to be drawn to this. This is yet another quest that stands out for its distinct happenings. The team itself was quite unique, the death by blocker was unique, the cast-locking, I think, was unique (am I right on that?) Yet another excellent quest to watch.</p>
<p dir="auto">Certainly, I agree it is wrong to criticise this team for intelligence. They are clearly quite young, but they acquit themselves very well. They answer a full quota of Brother Mace's questions at the end of level 1; they do what they think is right in level 2, and were unlucky with it. Even Christopher's idea of remaining a goblin had merit (one thinks of Chris Green (S6) dressing the part as a witch). More so, the team quickly attempt to dis-spell when Mace appears a threat, and easily win him around.</p>
<p dir="auto">I think what fascinates me so much about this synopsis is the false illusion of a second chance. As David notes, even if they are able to acquire the password and survive the blocker, they are without the firestone, and would be unable to continue.</p>
<p dir="auto">My interpretation for how this level would have been completed seems straightforward, perhaps too much so, and it builds on David's suggestions made already.</p>
<p dir="auto">Pretty much all of the speculation on this thread surrounds the spells - there has been precious little attention to what else is offered. The key to this surely stems from the scroll: 'Fair trade is no robbery'. This implies, certainly, that the silver will be required. However, the 'no robbery' idea, in my view, implies that whatever they are offered will be 'fair' - the right item. They do need magic of some description - that much is made clear by Elita in the previous episode. This could come in the form of a spell, charm or potion, and the team are, understandably enough, keen to purchase a spell. However, Elita also mentions that the firestone is frozen, and so a potion of impurity would be just what the team would need to break through the ice. Not blindingly obvious, granted, but just about fair enough.</p>
<p dir="auto">Alarm bells ring as soon as CHANGE and SWITCH are mentioned. Both are as disconcertingly vague as the other - it seems very clear to me then that both spells are the wrong option, and the scroll seems to encourage a belief in 'fair trade', which is the integrity of the initial item offered. They do, after all, chase quite hard for spells, when there are other forms of magic.</p>
<p dir="auto">That, if it were true, would solve the firestone mystery: I don't think the spells come into it at all. But, as mentioned, they are other problems which this hypothesis does not solve. Would Brother Mace have been able to supply the password if Chris had not been tricked? Would they have had to suffer from not taking a a wild guess on Motley's stick from a wider choice than normal? One might hope that if they handled the mental challenge of the level - melting the ice with the right implement - that they would be afforded some leniency for the rest of the level.</p>
<p dir="auto">I just liked the way it seemed that a fairly unlucky mistake could have been rectified by some better luck had they taken the jester's bauble, but not to be. I thought this unorthodox bunch did quite well. And, like I said earlier, for the spectator, it's great fun to watch.</p>
]]></description><link>https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/37013</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/37013</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[KaM]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 14:10:05 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Series 5 Episode 14 on Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:24:28 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">I loved the quotes from the advisor in glasses in the 2nd team:</p>
<p dir="auto">"There is a couple of boxes on your left, and to your right there's some more boxes... so can you go over to the boxes? So walk forwards!"</p>
<p dir="auto">"There's two people at a stall. Do you wanna walk over to it?" <em>waits a few seconds while the dungeoneer stands there confused, then remembers the dungeoneer can't see anything!</em></p>
<p dir="auto">"You're going into... a room it looks like" (I love the way he then sighs &amp; raises his eyebrows, realising what he's just said!)</p>
<p dir="auto">(ok, I should let him off the 1st one, he did mumble very quickly "left... morelikecrates")</p>
<p dir="auto">I'm looking forward to the next episode now, they've started well this team.</p>
]]></description><link>https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/34872</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/34872</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[WackerJr]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:24:28 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Series 5 Episode 14 on Thu, 07 Sep 2006 14:24:21 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<p dir="auto">I'm not comfortable with the whole idea of Chris having to return to where he entered Level 2 in order to get to Level 3. To me, it's a little too close to breaking the hallowed 'only way is onward, there is no turning back' dictum; plus, the idea of a dungeoneer having two Smirkenorff flights is something I find less than credible.</p>
</blockquote>
<p dir="auto">The worst thing about it is that, if you think about it, it makes Level 2 seem utterly superfluous. (I've thought that about Smirkenorff's presence in general in fact; if he can take dungeoneers to Level 2, why can't he just take them to Level 3 and have done with it? For that matter, why did they need a different short cut in season eight?) It would've been okay in the early years when quest objects were 'broken' into three or four pieces; you'd need to go to Level 2 to find at least one of the quest pieces. But it never made much sense to me going through Level 2 when the quest object was intact, <em>unless</em> the only entrance to Level 3 was to be found there (i.e. the descender). If Smirkenorff was the way in <em>and</em> the way out, he could also be the way past it altogether.</p>
]]></description><link>https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/34849</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/34849</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[HStorm]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Thu, 07 Sep 2006 14:24:21 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Series 5 Episode 14 on Wed, 06 Sep 2006 22:22:37 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">I am so perplexed by this quest. I wish I knew exactly what was 'supposed' to have happened on Level 2. Although I feel like I'm about three years late with this post, here, for what it's worth, are my thoughts.</p>
<p dir="auto">One point that hasn't been raised in this thread is that during the spyglass scene in the previous episode, Lord Fear and Aesandre discussed a 'trap' being set. This suggests to me that the team was meant to use a spell on the frozen firestone (Treguard prompts them to ensure this happens), and that the spell was meant to turn the dungeoneer into a goblin. Thus the transformation would have occurred whichever spell they'd bought: in my opinion, CHANGE and SWITCH are largely synonymous, and the rather unclear scroll clue, 'fair trade is no robbery', referred only to the silver, because it's just too ambiguous to indicate one spell or the other. As I said in a post earlier this year: 'The whole goblin transformation 'subplot' seems too unique and detailed for it to have been merely a 50-50 possibility; and a scene where a dungeoneer enters a Level 2 room, casts SWITCH to de-ice a firestone, picks it up then walks out, seems too straightforward'.</p>
<p dir="auto">Although the team have been criticised as dense, their only real mistake was not taking Motley's bauble, and considering that they had a vague scroll clue and four objects to choose from (Team 4, who went on to win, had only three Level 2 clue objects to choose from), it's maybe not as stupid a mistake as it may seem. Because of what happened to Chris, and the manner of his demise, the team ended up looking even more foolish than perhaps they were. That's just my opinion.</p>
<p dir="auto">But that speculation by no means solves all the puzzles. Assuming Chris had taken the bauble, summoned Motley, been turned back and got the password, how would he then have got the firestone which Elita said he needed? Surely Motley couldn't have been expected to provide that too, simply for being summoned? And so we're left with no real idea of how the team would have completed Level 2.</p>
<p dir="auto">I'm not comfortable with the whole idea of Chris having to return to where he entered Level 2 in order to get to Level 3. To me, it's a little too close to breaking the hallowed 'only way is onward, there is no turning back' dictum; plus, the idea of a dungeoneer having two Smirkenorff flights is something I find less than credible. What's more, it throws up a continuity error: during the Level 1 spyglass scene, Lord Fear said he wanted Chris stopped before he could reach the Gate Tower, i.e. inter-level descendor. But if he's doing all his level-to-level travelling on Smirky, he wouldn't be visiting the Gate Tower anyway. From this inconsistency, and the way that the three characters seen in Level 1 of the quest appeared/would have appeared on Level 2 (Elita, Mace, Motley), and the way that the team was required to find a clue object that had already featured in Level 1 (firestone), I suspect that the Level 2 was originally scripted for a different quest, but put into Quest 7 for some reason. It all adds to the confusion. Mr. Child, if you're reading and you have the answers somewhere to all these quest questions about what would have happened, I for one would be extremely grateful to hear them one day!</p>
<p dir="auto">Puzzlement aside, I really liked the way that Brother Mace harked back to the 'Etruscan brandy' incident of Series 4. A witty touch in his final Knightmare scene.</p>
]]></description><link>https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/34845</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/34845</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Drassil]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Wed, 06 Sep 2006 22:22:37 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Series 5 Episode 14 on Sat, 11 Sep 2004 09:44:14 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">Started at Scaramonger's shop, where theey bought a change SPELL instead of SWITCH.</p>
<p dir="auto">Tried to use the CHANGE spell to free the firestone (wouldn't it have melted through itself anyway?) but this changed the dungeoneer into a Goblin.</p>
<p dir="auto">Met Mace again, the dungeoneer was left to talk to him with no help from the team.</p>
<p dir="auto">Seems team were in losing staus every since they left Motley's stick. Met their end when gobbled by a blocker.</p>
<p dir="auto">As this level seemed to be a big circle, maybe they should have tried to retrace there steps?</p>
]]></description><link>https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/28919</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/28919</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[HarveyTowers]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sat, 11 Sep 2004 09:44:14 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Series 5 Episode 14 on Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:33:14 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">Great episode! First of all, I noticed that the freeze frame of the Knightmare logo has a tape dropout- look at just below middle right of the screen and you'll see it.</p>
<p dir="auto">Chris' team first take the CHANGE spell from JS, instead of the SWITCH one. Then they enter a room with the firestone frozen in ice...no problem, they just spellcast CHANGE and...whoops. Wrong spell. It seems the rather dubious sounding scroll clue indicated they should have took SWITCH instead, and now Chris has turned into a goblin with the firestone unthawed.</p>
<p dir="auto">I guess they're in losing status from now on, then- was a bit suspicious that Chris conveniently wanted to stay as a goblin, though. Still, the voice is hysterical- who'd have thought a goblin's voice sounded like a high pitched scouser?</p>
<p dir="auto">Brother Mace almost blugeoned Chroblin (a name I just made up, short for Chris the Goblin) to death with his stick, but after he squealed "I'm not a goblin!" (Chroblin, not Brother Mace) he realised, and revealed that Motley would return him to his normal self if they had his jester stick. Oh figs, they left it in the clue room! Therefore Chroblin will have to stay as a Goblin for now...</p>
<p dir="auto">...but wait! Here's the blocker demanding a password, which they were going to get from Motley. So they try spellcasting the causeway code of Red, Blue, Green, Grey...</p>
<p dir="auto">"Red, Green, Blue, Grey!"</p>
<p dir="auto">"No Chris! Red, Blue..."</p>
<p dir="auto"><em>Blocker lunges forward and eats Chris</em></p>
<p dir="auto">I love that death, one of my favourites! Ranks up there with S2 Team 5's "playpen" death, except it's the humour that tickles me this time instead of the scare factor.</p>
<p dir="auto">Geez, I have gone on a bit...oh well, this is the last paragraph, so I'm nearly done. This episode ended on a great cliffhanger as the knew team (who have already provided a funny moment when they asked Smirkenoff to land) timed out in an empty void of nothingness, except for the floor. I honestly can't remember what happens next, so can't wait to find out!</p>
]]></description><link>https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/28915</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/28915</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Billy]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:33:14 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Series 5 Episode 14 on Mon, 24 Nov 2003 03:34:52 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<p dir="auto">Just one other point: When Chris (as a goblin) was confronted by Brother Mace, the monk said that if they had something of Motley's (i.e the stick!) then Motley would be able to turn them back into a normal dungeoneer again, so Motley would have been able to turn them back to normal AND give them the password for the Blocker. Beats me how the team would have been able to get the firestone though.</p>
</blockquote>
<p dir="auto">This has got to be one of the best teams as far as wild speculation is concerned, since there are so many possibilities about what could have happened.</p>
<p dir="auto">It's pretty obvious they were meant to take the Jester's stick thing, although I agree with PunmiesterWhiteley that there wasn't much of a clue between that and the quill thing (even if I don't agree with his taste in puns or ugly ties and jackets). You might say that they should second guess it might be Motley's, but if you apply the principle of "what's likely to be useful to anyone we happen to meet", I'd think the quill is a fair choice. Any mage or monk might be quite happy with that, whereas a Jester's stick thing is only likely to be useful to one person. A hint from Treguard would have been nice. On, the spell to pick, I know Malefact's pointed to the scroll clue a few times, and I think I agree, especially since it's the only other clue they have! It's a pretty crappy clue, though. "Fair trade is no robbery"- meaning you SWITCH and don't get CHANGE. Fair enough. But you might equally say that you do get CHANGE in a fair trade, rather than being swindled and getting no CHANGE. Anyway, the fact we're not sure it was a clue for the spell choice pretty much makes the point that it was a crappy clue!</p>
<p dir="auto">Thus I guess SWITCH would have worked on the trapped firestone. Elita said they'd need magic to get it. Otherwise, perhaps SWITCH would have turned the stick into Motley himself and he'd have released it. Or perhaps CHANGE might have done that if they'd had the stick ... Oh dear, those were perhaps increasingly speculative. Or perhaps Smirkenorff would have flown in through the roof, toasted the ice, and declared his eternal love for Brother Mace. Or perhaps Elita would have reappeared and melted the ice with insults, and the team would have needed SWITCH to turn her mouth off.  Or perhaps I should go and lie down. The men in white coats are saying it's time for my medication now.</p>
]]></description><link>https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/13667</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/13667</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[GrimaldineGrimwold]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2003 03:34:52 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Series 5 Episode 14 on Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:12:23 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">Just one other point: When Chris (as a goblin) was confronted by Brother Mace, the monk said that if they had something of Motley's (i.e the stick!) then Motley would be able to turn them back into a normal dungeoneer again, so Motley would have been able to turn them back to normal AND give them the password for the Blocker. Beats me how the team would have been able to get the firestone though.</p>
]]></description><link>https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/13655</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/13655</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[JamesA]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:12:23 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Series 5 Episode 14 on Sun, 23 Nov 2003 01:10:23 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">did u watch how the goblin walked?  lol amuseing.</p>
<p dir="auto">it sure as hell wasn't Chris.</p>
]]></description><link>https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/13626</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/13626</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Purgatory]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2003 01:10:23 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Series 5 Episode 14 on Sat, 22 Nov 2003 07:19:25 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">Shouldn't they have asked Julius what the spells do before buying one?</p>
<p dir="auto">This team were screwed and screwed up in equal doses.</p>
<p dir="auto">1: No clue what objects to take.  It was an equal chance that either the feather or Motley's stick would be the right one.  Success would be down to a complete guess which is hardly fair.</p>
<p dir="auto">2:  Another guess on what spell to buy.</p>
<p dir="auto">Still the turning into a goblin was hysterical.  The squeaky voice had me in stitches.</p>
]]></description><link>https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/13605</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.knightmare.com/forum/post/13605</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[PunmiesterWhiteley]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2003 07:19:25 GMT</pubDate></item></channel></rss>