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For the simple reason that they are not immortal, merely ageless, same as Tolkeins elves. Ageless but still able to be killed.

Therefore not immortal.

It's like the age old argument about whether God is omnipotent. Most followers of a faith would claim yes. So simple. Ask God to make someone more powerful than himself. If he does it then he is no longer the most powerful being and therefore no longer omnipotent.

If he can't do it, then there is something he cannot do, there for he is not omnipotent.

Pendragon wrote: The oldest member of the Dungeon is Lillith becaues she was Adam's first wife in the guarden of Ede. She was thrown out for not showing respect to Adam and to God. She lived in a cave by the Red Sea and learn't the Black arts and became the world's first vamapire.

I might be a bit rusty on this, but I believe that it actually went along the lines of God creating Adam as both man and woman, joined at the back, then split them into two, Adam and Lillith. And Lillith didn't show respect for Adam by refusing to adopt the missionary position when doing the nasty, therefore was a bad wife and got exiled from Eden. And then went on to breed with devils, and was the mother of demons, not something as mundane as a vampire. Adam had a second wife before Eve too y'know, but that's another story...

Oh, and Cain = vampire is (as far as I know) something invented by White Wolf for Vampire: The Angsting Masquerade, I've not come across that one in mythology. (byt Hebrew myth ain't my speciality)

As far as Knightmare Lillith = Biblical Lillith goes, I'm not too sure. Yeah, the books indicate that she is, but the books also indicate that Velda is NOT a knife-wielding psychopath, so they might not be accurate. Besides, if Lillith WAS her biblical counterpart, I'm sure she'd be doing more important things than making causeways... laying teh smack down on Mogdred for a start since she WAY outranks him.

I'm positive that somewhere Cain has been mentioned as being the first Vampire. It's something to do with him being the first to draw human blood....

As for Vampire : The Masquerade. Never heard of it. What is it?

You could be right, like I said, this isn't my area of expertise. (now if it was GREEK mythology on the other hand...)

Vampire: The Eternal Moan Masquerade is a fairly popular RPG produced by White Wolf, in which Cain is the father of vampires, and constantly mentioned. (whenever they're not drowning in angst)

Maybe the definition of Vampire has shanged, where does the word come from? That might help explain things?

I'll take it that I'm right on that one then Even though I'm probably wrong

Sounds....errr....depressing. Typical Vampire thing about whinging that they are Vampires and brooding about wanting to be human again???

As I said on page 1 of this thread, Tim Child has made it clear that the books are not definitive, so any evidence you take from them has to be taken with a pinch of salt. Especially remember that they were not wrtten by TC, but by Dave Morris who never worked on the series itself at all and therefore only really had his own ideas about how the KM universe should be developed.

And as Jen points out above, there are numerous little inconsistencies in the details between the books and the series.

Semtex Jack wrote: Sounds....errr....depressing. Typical Vampire thing about whinging that they are Vampires and brooding about wanting to be human again???

You are absolutely right sir, well done! Can't bloody stand it myself.

Pendragon wrote: Maybe the definition of Vampire has shanged, where does the word come from? That might help explain things?

The following is brought to you courtesy of dictionary.com, the finest online dictionary you'll find!

Vampire

\Vam"pire\, n. [F. vampire (cf. It. vampiro, G. & D. vampir), fr. Servian vampir.] [Written also vampyre.] 1. A blood-sucking ghost; a soul of a dead person superstitiously believed to come from the grave and wander about by night sucking the blood of persons asleep, thus causing their death. This superstition is now prevalent in parts of Eastern Europe, and was especially current in Hungary about the year 1730.

Hell, we've moved away from KM almost completely now. I didn't even notice us leaving.

I always took Vampires to be night-dwellers. Sunlight kills (unsure about the stake through the hart thing) as does decapitation. They must drink human blood to remain healthy and strong.....like we do with water.

Some sources refer to this being a fusion of demon and human, therefore retaining two sides, the human form, where it is impossible to tell they are vampire, and the demon form which comes about when they feed.

So many contradicting sources make a definitive definition almost impossible.

Semtex Jack wrote: Hell, we've moved away from KM almost completely now. I didn't even notice us leaving.

Oooo, like that's never happened before. :p *waits for someone to call the waaaaaaaaaahmbulance*

Some sources refer to this being a fusion of demon and human, therefore retaining two sides, the human form, where it is impossible to tell they are vampire, and the demon form which comes about when they feed.

Are you sure you're not thinking of Buffy The Vampire Slayer there?

I absolutely hate that programme. Too American. Vampires have no place in America

They should be kept to European castles where they are free to feed on the villagers!!!!

Semtex Jack wrote: I absolutely hate that programme. Too American. Vampires have no place in America

Good, that makes two of us!

If we look at what is taken to be the first Vampire novel,
Dracula, then we can see that the Vampire is a deeply passionate and sexual being.

It has a large amount of Charisma and seemingly can cast an enticing spell on women. Ah, someone make me a Vampire, I could do with some Charisma

How old is Mogdred?

I think he is probably the sma eage as Merlin?

How old are the wall monsters?