Knightmare.com

I understand the points about YouTube, online piracy, and the entire debate that's going on these days regarding material development and if money should be going to the right people etc. But in terms of Knightmare specifically, is there no common ground between having Knightmare available or nothing?

I mean if by watching episodes of Knightmare repeatedly for the last year on YouTube I apologise if that is stiffing you, and everyone, but is that something that can be avoided in this day and age? Would it have made a difference if I didn't click on the videos and watched them? Is not watching Knightmare the best thing to do for the series. Its so confusing as a fan when you don't have access to what your a fan of.

I also understand DVDs are out of the question. In fairness, why would anyone apart from avid fans and collectors buy an DVD box set outside of the Christmas period. Its not a good move, especially when you see a huge work of art which a Knightmare box set would be, going for £15 in a HMV bargain basket, when it cost more to make the damn discs and packaging.
What I am getting at, if Knightmare has been removed due to legal reasons, then that's fine and as it should be. It is fair and just, but then will we see some fair and just for us fans who want to see it, and are actually willing to pay money to do so? We are not given that option is the point I am trying to drive home. I mean here's my money! Take it! Get it on a paid for service site, like iTunes or Netflix so the fans can give back to you guys what we feel you are entitled to.

I know it must be sinkeningly unfair to see your works available for free, but there must be a common ground here for us fans who now don't have access to watch the show that has resulted in the fans we are today. There has to be

I'm sorry Alan, just making a point from what Tim was saying. Also as he made his comments on this particular thread I thought it was best to reply on this thread. All future points with regards to dvd set's I will start a new thread or comment on a relevant thread regarding dvd's.

I do agree 100 percent with what Tim has said.

If you look at the shows on Challenge TV...Fun House, TNA wrestling, Bullseye, Who wants to be a millionaire, all these and more appear on YouTube (and have have done for some time) in either clip or full episode form and this has not stopped Challenge TV from buying the rights to show them.

I appreciate that this is no argument against the legal/copyright side of things however, that of course must be respected.

Insider wrote:If you look at the shows on Challenge TV...Fun House, TNA wrestling, Bullseye, Who wants to be a millionaire, all these and more appear on YouTube (and have have done for some time) in either clip or full episode form and this has not stopped Challenge TV from buying the rights to show them.

I appreciate that this is no argument against the legal/copyright side of things however, that of course must be respected.

You usually make good points Insider, but not here I'm afraid.
The shows you quote are gameshows, all of them mass produced in their hundreds and even thousands, with very little residuals to pay, and therefore cheap as chips ro rerun, with their simpler production values. No big decision for outfits like Challenge or other niche channels in the market for moving wallpaper with a soundtrack. Knightmare, as I don't have to tell you was a hybrid - a dramatised adventure game -engaging the talents of a cast of actors who would have done justice to a full blow drama. Expensive to make and very expensive to rerun, especially in comparison to gameshows.
To those of you who have made the point that priracy could be excused as a last resort by genuine fans who would always prefer to pay for the product (if only they could), I do most genuinely sympathise, but that doesn't mean such action is not self-defeating, which is why I pointed it out.

Peter wrote:I mean if by watching episodes of Knightmare repeatedly for the last year on YouTube I apologise if that is stiffing you, and everyone, but is that something that can be avoided in this day and age? Would it have made a difference if I didn't click on the videos and watched them? Is not watching Knightmare the best thing to do for the series. Its so confusing as a fan when you don't have access to what your a fan of.

From what I can ascertain, there's no harm in viewing any material available on YouTube. The damage is done by the process of recording and uploading the episodes. It wouldn't matter whether an illegally uploaded video had 5 views or if it had 50,000 the effect is the same - the material is available for free therefore what does Challenge gain by purchasing the rights to show Knightmare?

When Challenge purchase those rights, a certain percentage goes towards all the wonderful cast and crew who made the series possible. This simply does not happen on YouTube, aside from specially licensed material which YouTube recognizes and pays for through advertisements. While that would appear to be one possible partial solution (ie. an official YouTube channel that is paid for by advertisements), you are still left with the YouTube problem of users who download videos from the site and illegally republish them on their own channels.

Peter wrote:I also understand DVDs are out of the question. In fairness, why would anyone apart from avid fans and collectors buy an DVD box set outside of the Christmas period. Its not a good move, especially when you see a huge work of art which a Knightmare box set would be, going for £15 in a HMV bargain basket, when it cost more to make the damn discs and packaging.

As I pointed out earlier, unless Knightmare manages to completely take over television in a massive way there simply isn't the raw audience out there to make DVD box-sets and the like worthwhile and profitable. Digital distribution removes much of the risk-factor (since there are zero manufacturing costs), allow sale of material of any length (for example, single episodes), and deals can be made for material to be made available to the public at pretty low cost and in some cases for free.

This also provides room for experimentation - a single episode, or maybe a couple, could be made available to begin with (episodes which Challenge don't have the rights to broadcast to avoid potential conflict). The minimal material would have incredibly low publishing cost and would provide an opportunity to gauge public response and profitability, before increasing the available library gradually over time to eventually include everything.

I think that's our single best hope of getting classic Knightmare episodes available on-demand legally.

I've noticed that most Knightmare videos on YouTube have been blocked.
And it says due to a copyright claim by British Sky Broadcasting Ltd.. Does Sky own the rights now?

dogmanjack wrote:I've noticed that most Knightmare videos on YouTube have been blocked.
And it says due to a copyright claim by British Sky Broadcasting Ltd.. Does Sky own the rights now?

BSkyB own Challenge, who currently have the broadcast rights to Series 1 & 2. Interestingly, a different set of uploads were blocked by ITV.

But don't they buy the broadcasting rights from ITV?

The rights have probably only been licensed. Probably for 5 years.

Yes ITV holds the rights. That's why you see their logo at the end of an episode on Challenge. Not quite the same compared to the Broadsword logo back in the day!

Which might be why ITV blocked youtube vids as they want challenge to buy them again.

wombstar wrote:Which might be why ITV blocked youtube vids as they want challenge to buy them again.

Here's hoping ! It would seem a waste of ITV's time and energy to police Youtube etc, if they weren't hoping to sell the rights on again.

Maybe a deal has been struck and hasn't been announced. Would seem silly for Challenge not to air them.

wombstar wrote:Maybe a deal has been struck and hasn't been announced. Would seem silly for Challenge not to air them.

If that is the case, I would hope that we would hear something soon, given that Series 2 is nearing the end of its run on Challenge.