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Which Knightmare character do you think was the oldest aged? Oakley the tree troll maybe? Smirkenorff perhaps? Owen? Merlin?

Out of the list I'd say Oakley because trees live 'til they're thousands of years old. I'd say Merlin, Owen and Smirky are a few hundred years old.

But I reckon that Mogdred is pretty ancient, he exudes that vibe of being a great age. He's probably around 900 or something!

Well it says http://knightmare.com/club/3-2/p4.htm http://knightmare.com/club/3-1/p4.htm that Merlin is 93 and Pickle is 356 also Majida is 3456. I reacon that Mogdred is possibly younger than Merlin. I think that Smirky might be the baby out of the bunch, so it's probably a close one between Majida and Oakley, with Majida being slightly older! If it's anything to go by the trumps card, it also says that she was released from a bottle after being trapped for thousands of years, whereas she tells Treguard *Spoiler* that she was trapped in the bottle for six and one half days. (My thoughts though)

3 thous-...?! *Horrified*

Oh well, I always did like older women...

The thing is though, her and Pickle havn't aged a bit though in all those years. I just want to know what their secrets (especially majida's) are to stay young. What do they use.

Satanism probably.

I suppose if you're an elf or a genie average ageing rates don't apply to you - in a lot of literature where elves feature the idea tends to be that they're extremely long-lived or immortal eg. in Tolkien's works, or books by Raymond Feist to give a more recent example.

The oldest member of the Dungeon is Lillith becaues she was Adam's first wife in the guarden of Ede. She was thrown out for not showing respect to Adam and to God. She lived in a cave by the Red Sea and learn't the Black arts and became the world's first vamapire.

Yet on what are you assuming that both Lillith's are one and the same?

Otherwise I could ask if regular Cheers customer's wife was the first Vampire?

Mind you, looking at her....the pale skin, the jet black hair.....you may be on to something!!

The Lillith in the Labarynth of Fear is the original because it is mentioned. Therefore she is the same character in the gameshow or perhaps Merlin is not Merlin and Treguard is not Treguard. We must assume they are the same because that is logical. Lillith was an importal, Jewish families are terrified of her today.

Actually. Just thinking back over my mythology....isn't it also a popular belief that Cain was infact the very first Vampire?

There are many different interpretations, so it is possible, but I think Lillith is the more widely acclaimed Vampire. Things are often lost in translation and Hebrew is difficult, it tokk Luther and his team years to translate the Hebrew texts of the Old Testament into Germany becuase Hebrew has no vowels.

You won't find anything about Lillith in Genesis, she is in another book. Christians don;t believe in her as they consider her to be just part of folk-lore.

It does also seem to be common Christian practice to pretty much ignore most of the horrible/demonic/ooooh nasty thigs in this world.

This translation problem happens time and time again. It's the same as typing something simple like 'Yesterday I played backgammon with a Polish farmer' into a language translator, then pasting the response and translating is back into English and getting 'A European Agriculturalist and myself took part in a round of reverse ham the day before today'

Alright. A contrived example but I think it shows the point.

The Lillith in the Labyrinths of Fear is the original because it is mentioned.

The problem with what you're saying, Pendragon, is that you're assuming the novellas are definitive when they're not. Tim Child gave an interview to The Quest magazine back in the early-90's (see http://www.knightmare.com/club/1-3/p4and5.htm) where he stated that the books were consistent with the "concept" of the show, but were not part of continuity in the details. There are numerous examples of this e.g. in the opening episode Treguard claimed that he alone had mastered the dungeon, and yet according to the first book he couldn't possibly have succeeded without Folly's help, making the word "alone" sound very hollow indeed.

Furthermore, there's no possibility whatsoever that the interactive stories at the back of the books are part of continuity at all, and that's where it was suggested that this was the Lillith who was Adam's first wife (and even there it's only hinted at and not clearly stated).

For what it's worth, when I write fanfics I try to keep them consistent with the books and the TV series wherever possible, but that's just because I prefer it that way. I don't imagine for a minute that my fics are definitive, so I don't see their basis as definitive either.

Do you agree that Lillith could be the oldest dungeon character?