Knightmare.com

Drassil wrote:Unsurprisingly, the BBC series Merlin has no end of unintended Knightmare references.

I see Merlin is being replaced by a new drama set in Atlantis and based on Greek mythology. Sounds like there may yet be more reminders of Knightmare on Saturday evenings!

Dialogue from yesterday's episode of Atlantis on BBC One:

Pythagoras: I didn't nearly stand on Astrabacus. It was a spider.

Hercules: Princess Ariadne with you?

Unless it was a reference to Creepy Crawlies of course

Not sure which of those similarly named spiders came first - both must have been late 80s...

Probably neither.
The name is associated with Greek mythology which is what the show Atlantis is about.

Yes, but Ariadne wasn't a spider in Greek mythology was she? I'll admit it's not my area of expertise!

Ariadne is also another name for Arachne the spider goddess.
Ariadne also used a ball of thread to help people escape the maze/labyrinth I believe

Ah, I knew about the ball of thread but hadn't realized there was an explicit link with Arachne. Though I suppose it does explain why two kids TV shows have spiders called Ariadne!

Like all things it's portably a mixture of different myths.
I like seeing how theses things evolve over time, it's like the way people see Medusa theses days.. based on Ray Harryhausen's creations, and how Igor became a hunckback assistant to every mad scientist.. lol

HobGoblin wrote:Yes, but Ariadne wasn't a spider in Greek mythology was she?

You're absolutely right, Chris. Ariadne and Arachne were entirely distinct characters in Greco-Roman mythology and I would be amazed yet fascinated by any reliable source that suggests otherwise.

Iconic and influential as Ray Harryhausen's work was, I'm not entirely convinced that his portrayal of Medusa was vastly different from the prior depictions of her in art and literature, but that is a discussion for another time and place.

I didn't know about Creepy Crawlies and its spider called Ariadne, so thank you for that! It's a shame that this intriguing coincidence didn't come to light sooner. Perhaps both sets of programme makers wisely thought that Arachne was too obvious a name for an arachnid (cf. Russell T. Davies and the Racnoss).

Incidentally, it was Annie who first suggested that Atlantis would remind us of aspects of Knightmare and there are doubtless more in store.

Drassil wrote:Incidentally, it was Annie who first suggested that Atlantis would remind us of aspects of Knightmare and there are doubtless more in store.

When they first showed the trailer with Jason asking "What is this place? Where am I?", my Mum remarked that it sounded like Knightmare, haha.

A video of The Famous Five that I posted on the forum a while back features David Learner (Pickle) and Jemima Rooper (Medusa) in the same scene. Also John Woodnutt (Merlin) and Juliet Stevenson (the Oracle) both appeared in a BBC production of Oedipus the King, the subject of last week's episode.

Wouldn't it be great if Cliff Barry made a guest appearance as an Atlantean?

Ariadne and Arachne were both weaving goddess.

There must have been a reason Knightmare named their spider after a weaver who wasn't a spider, and maybe KM has now set the standard for future Ariadnes, perhaps theses days people consider them the same.
Another example is in Alice in Wonderland, the Red Queen and Queen of Hearts are two different people.. over the years they're seen as one, maybe that's what's happened with the weavers.

Medusa never had a serpents body until Ray gave her one, she was not nearly as 'ugly' until he made her that way, (she was originally very beautiful) it's his interpretation that many people associate Medusa with, and it will be interesting to see how she's portrayed on this tv series.
http://nationalmediamuseumblog.wordpres ... a-forever/

To the best of my knowledge, neither Arachne nor Ariadne were portrayed or worshipped as goddesses (even though Ariadne married a god). If there's an expert on the Classical world who has firm evidence to the contrary then I'd be interested to read their argument.

Thanks for the Medusa link. There was in fact another, completely separate Medusa in Greco-Roman mythology. She tried to win King Minos' affections by presenting him with her father's magic purple hair. It didn't work. Medusas never could avoid weird hair situations.

It only occurred to me recently (during a reread of Annie's fanfic The March of Progress) that the skeletrons probably owe something to Ray Harryhausen.

Going back to unintended Knightmare references:

Last Christmas' Doctor Who special. When Tasha Lem's giant head appeared in the sky to speak to the Doctor, I thought of Malice and Morghanna.

According to the current issue of Time Out (Treguard's favourite magazine), Stepney City Farm has a 'therapeutic rabbit' named Pooka.