What brought the characters back to Knightmare Dungeon?

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Beltane
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What brought the characters back to Knightmare Dungeon?

Post by Beltane »

...or pushed them away?

From quite early in Knightmare's run, Treguard would mention that the dungeoneer had gone beyond the bounds of the dungeon. The dungeon (or whatever spirit gave it life) did spread beyond Dunshelm Castle's architecture, especially from series 4 onwards, but apparently the dungeoneer, and characters, could come into the Knightmare Dungeon area and leave it at will (Motley and Mellisandre had a conversation about this once in series 4).

That got me wondering: what prompted people to come and hang out in this eldritch location, and what prompted others to leave and never come back? A few thoughts:

- Treguard: seemed to be stuck with it, since his name would have been on the castle's deed, and however far the dungeon spread, it seemed always to be linked to the castle. Although, we never saw him enter it so it seems he kept it at arm's length as much as he could.
- Olgarth and Granitas: I wonder where they went? Surely they didn't both die, since both were ancient? I'm thinking they may well have left, especially since other wall monsters - Igneous, Brangwen, and Golgarach - only came for one season and then skidaddled. Apparently something about the dungeon didn't sit right with them, perhaps because they inhabited walls and the place had a nasty tendency to shift about a lot? Must have been disorientating.
- Lillith: Who knows, since she seemed to be powerful, though isolated. I imagine she got fed up of dungeoneers blundering through, and surely even she recognised that they couldn't help it.
- Gibbet, Gumboil and Cedric: I would have expected these three to hang around. Sentry duty seemed to suit Cedric well enough at least, and surely Gumboil wouldn't have been that disuaded from doing his job just because of a few mishaps? Gibbet really didn't seem to like anyone enough to even be particularly reliable as a guard. Perhaps he got the sack from whoever hired him?
- Gretel: She seemed comfortable enough there. Perhaps she just outgrew it and felt there was more for her elsewhere?
- Mellisandre: Since she apparently is Eve herself, I can't help but wonder why she left. She doesn't strike me as a character particularly prone to character development.
- Mildread: Really, c'mon. She's elderly, and clearly has a strong interest in magic. How can a magic dungeon fail to be a good place for her?

I know there are heaps more but I'll hold it there. Any thoughts?
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Re: What brought the characters back to Knightmare Dungeon?

Post by Canadanne »

Mellisandre was killed, if you believe the Knightmare Top Trumps cards. 8-o (I wrote a couple of short fanfics about her and Gretel's departures as stated on those.)

The comings and goings of the various wall inhabitants is intriguing. I do wonder where they came from and where they went. It seems to be implied that the likes of Granitas and Olgarth could manifest in different locations, but they seemed pretty settled in that one wall until they disappeared without explanation!
Drassil
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Re: What brought the characters back to Knightmare Dungeon?

Post by Drassil »

It's interesting to imagine what Knightmare might have been like if it had had the same cast of characters for eight series. Perhaps the balance of long-lived and short-lived characters worked out for the best.

From memory, the only characters to be written out in the series (retrospectively) were Pickle and Motley (who, it turned out, had never really left).

For anyone who knows The Quest's Knightmare Top Trumps (as referred to above by Annie) and regards them as canon, that list is longer: Merlin, Mogdred, Pickle, Folly, Mellisandre, Sir Hugh, Elita, Brother Mace.

That gives us a blank canvas to actually suggest reasons why the other characters disappeared, beyond simply asking why.

Like Annie, in my fanfiction I've speculated on the fates of some of the characters, and in some cases linked these fates to events rather than just their personalities:

Gibbet: Seeking redemption for ending the life of a dungeoneer, he makes a fresh start as a fletcher in Greenshades, becoming romantically involved with Gretel. (The Cure of Disruption)

Bumptious: Victim in a whodunnit. (CSI: Knightmare)

Folly: As a punishment for wrongdoing, his memory was wiped and he was banished. He became a piper at The Crazed Heifer. (CSI: Knightmare / Knightmare Roleplay Forum)

Mildread: As punishment for wrongdoing, Merlin imprisoned her in her cauldron. She may eventually have escaped as a skull haunting. (CSI: Knightmare)

Gretel: After a traumatic incident, left the Dungeon to train as a greenwarden. (CSI: Knightmare)

Mellisandre: Incurably ill - Merlin had been preserving her life by stopping her from getting older - the Tower of Time sent her into the past to live out her days in the pre-Vestan Dunshelm. (The Three of Hearts)

Boatman: Took a job as Lord Fear's goblin master. (The Endless Quest)

Julius Scaramonger: After his business fails, he and his family get jobs in Count Brinkatore's court. (I, Julius)

Dreadnort: Decapitated after a failed attack on the Grimwolds. This led to the release of Dreadnort's power source: Pixel. (Turning Back / Knightmare Roleplay Forum)

Aesandre: Gravely ill as a result of hiding her true self with magic, she went back in time to try and change history, and was either lost in time or killed by her past self. (Turning Back / Knightmare Roleplay Forum)
Knightmare: Kid-worthy, Naasty, Inspiring, Groundbreaking, Humorous, Treguard, Mesmerising, Adult-worthy, Rewarding, Essential.
Canadanne
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Re: What brought the characters back to Knightmare Dungeon?

Post by Canadanne »

Regarding "what brought them" to the dungeon in the first place, I like to think some of the dungeon guards are Vestan's mercenaries who survived the mountain battle in the first book and accepted new employment under Treguard; it specifies that some of them were renegade Scots, which could have included Gibbet. Cedric, of course, meets Treguard in the second book (having recently left the Knights Hospitallers) and seems intrigued by his mention of the dungeon.

Inspired by a 2008 fanfic by Esperata, I've always liked the idea that Lillith is the Gruagach's partner, which fits with the mythology and explains why she has her own domain within his dungeon (and is very hostile towards the person who ousted him, Treguard).
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Re: What brought the characters back to Knightmare Dungeon?

Post by AriadnesLayer »

I don't think any of the characters did leave, simply that we stopped coming across them. Much like when we meet newer characters - unlike stated otherwise - they'd always been there but we hadn't met them before.

I imagine the Dungeon as a massive and ancient place, which as stated in the canon, radically changes and re-arranges every year. So it makes sense that depending on where things end up, we meet some characters for a while and we don't meet others.

Lillith is still in her chamber in Series 7. The quest path simply doesn't run through there anymore.
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Re: What brought the characters back to Knightmare Dungeon?

Post by HStorm »

In general that's probably true, but I wouldn't say so with Lillith; the path still went through the Serpent's Mouth Cavern in season 3, but Lillith had gone.
Knightmare Audio Plays from The Dunshelm Players.
Beltane
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Re: What brought the characters back to Knightmare Dungeon?

Post by Beltane »

Canadanne wrote: 07 Apr 2023, 21:32 Mellisandre was killed, if you believe the Knightmare Top Trumps cards. 8-o (I wrote a couple of short fanfics about her and Gretel's departures as stated on those.)
Melly's death is intriguing to me, partly because I wrote a story a few years back where she'd died after giving birth to a daughter by Motley so it's news to me that this is cannon, or semi-cannon; and because so much seemed to be made of her indestructibility: Treguard told us that she's tougher than she looks when she fell through the trap door, she once said something like that, and she's also said that she doesn't seem to age, so it was really drummed into us that she wouldn't die.

How did she die?
Canadanne
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Re: What brought the characters back to Knightmare Dungeon?

Post by Canadanne »

Beltane wrote: 23 Apr 2023, 15:33 Melly's death is intriguing to me, partly because I wrote a story a few years back where she'd died after giving birth to a daughter by Motley so it's news to me that this is cannon, or semi-cannon; and because so much seemed to be made of her indestructibility: Treguard told us that she's tougher than she looks when she fell through the trap door, she once said something like that, and she's also said that she doesn't seem to age, so it was really drummed into us that she wouldn't die.

How did she die?
She "met her end between the jaws of a marauding Cavernwight", apparently!

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Re: What brought the characters back to Knightmare Dungeon?

Post by AriadnesLayer »

HStorm wrote: 22 Apr 2023, 12:36 In general that's probably true, but I wouldn't say so with Lillith; the path still went through the Serpent's Mouth Cavern in season 3, but Lillith had gone.
Oh true she was a bad example haha. Maybe she was in the toilet.
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