Series 1 Episode 3

Billy
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Re: Series 1 Episode 3

Post by Billy » Fri May 24, 2013 10:12 pm

After a strong but shaky start in the first two episodes, it's here on we really start to see the series step itself up a notch. This team are somewhat underrated I think, the dungeoneer's the first to genuinely try and immerse themselves in the world ("Simon...my lady") plus they're not afraid to take the mickey a bit, perhaps as they seem the oldest team so far. Loved the slightly mocking way one of the advisors repeated Treguard's words "Call out 'I Command You' and receive your bonus" in the previous ep!

First appearance of spellcasting and finally we get to Level 2 and Cedric. When I last commented on this episode I was fifteen, and found the riddles somewhat tricky. Nine years on I'm twenty-four, and, erm, still find them tricky if not sometimes impossible. Maybe I'm just incredibly thick but I'd have got *none* of Cedric's riddles right and I think the team did well to get the one. Not only do they seem to require knowledge of ancient history or myths that I'm sure most in their age group wouldn't have known (unless secondary schools of the 1980s taught vastly more history than mine did fifteen years later!) but some of them are just cruel tricks. Name the one known as 'Salad Din'. Answer: Saladin. Wait, what?! Having forgotten how this team did I'd have been horrendously annoyed had they been killed in the next room cus of their lack of riddle knowledge, thankfully they've survived on by taking the right objects.

Casper the Key's a fun idea and works well in his debut appearance, he did get somewhat overused over the next few series though. First appearance of Merlin and, sorry, WHAT.

Merlin: "Name what removes blemishes from one's hand. Lol this is so easy!"

Dungeoneer: "Soap!"

Merlin: "Falsehood! Wart-charming"

What. WHAT?! Seriously. What?! Actually making me slightly angry thinking about it. Was that ever genuinely meant to be a question anyone was ever going to get right?! Given Merlin gave them two spells anyway I wonder if it was a deliberately impossible question put in there to just make the dungeon seem a bit more mysterious, especially given how "easy" he claims it is just a few seconds earlier. Meh, I dunno, again hopefully it won't cost them the quest.

I genuinely do say 'hopefully' as I really have no idea what happens to this team! Have actually forgotten in the years since I last saw this, roll on next Friday I guess!

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Re: Series 1 Episode 3

Post by Canadanne » Fri May 24, 2013 10:26 pm

Billy wrote:This team are somewhat underrated I think, the dungeoneer's the first to genuinely try and immerse themselves in the world ("Simon...my lady")
Totally agree, Simon is one of my favourite dungeoneers!

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Re: Series 1 Episode 3

Post by HobGoblin » Fri May 24, 2013 10:27 pm

Just a few thoughts from me:

Definitely best episode so far. I imagine this was the one that really hooked viewers.

Treguard refers to the dungeon as 'my lair' - for me this sums up the wonderful ambiguity of the early series dungeon master. What are his motives exactly?

The catacombite is referred to as a creature of the lower levels but I don't think it ever appeared in level three (?). But what a great creature it is!

Despite it being a while since they found food, lifeforce is almost full when they enter the corridor. But then the chamber starts acting as a lifeforce drain, so I suppose it's all done for effect.

Nice to see level two at last, though it is rather riddle heavy (thus far). And yes, pretty tough riddles! Cedric withholding the food goes somewhat unpunished given the food in the very next chamber. Again, dramatic use of the lifeforce animation.

Suddenly we're drowning in magic - four spells dished out in a single episode after none in the first two.
Extreme warning team, a Hobgoblin in the level!

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Re: Series 1 - Episode 3

Post by Drassil » Sat May 25, 2013 1:39 pm

It's very good to see you back here, Billy. :)

The riddles in this episode may not be the easiest, but you may be distorting the wording to prove your point. ;) I don't think it's expecting too much for teenagers to have a basic knowledge of the Crusades, and Cedric's first riddle does point toward that as the subject. As for Merlin's second riddle, he did say "magic", and for what I've read, people claiming to be wart charmers were still active in the 20th century. (Incidentally, my awareness of the Crusades and of wart charming each owe something to the Knightmare books.) In any case, the team's low score against Cedric was, as Chris/HobGoblin has suggested, of almost no consequence - possibly because the production team were keen to see them advance through Level Two. Had they scored three and got Cedric to accompany them, I think we can safely assume that Casper would not have been waiting in the next room.

This being Lawrence Werber's first episode, I contacted him about it and he was kind enough to reply. 'I am constantly being surprised by the amount of interest Knightmare continues to provoke. There is no doubt that it was ahead of its time, and it's nice to know people are still enjoying it.' As some of you know, he has worked as a dentist before and since Knightmare: I made a quip about Casper the Key having teeth, which he politely ignored. I'm debating whether to follow it up with a remark about how calling people dogsbottom must have maintained his interest in canines.

The continuation of Merlin's introduction suggests that they weren't expecting Simon to name him before he named himself! It still irks me that The Independent's obituary of John Woodnutt failed to mention Knightmare.
Chris wrote:Suddenly we're drowning in magic - four spells dished out in a single episode after none in the first two.
This record, I believe, was later equalled but never broken.

Knightmare is, for now, not a place to suffer fools gladly: the laughter that rewerberates (sic) over the end credits demonstrates that.

As well as featuring a raft of new locations and characters, even more are hinted at in dialogue: lower levels, sorcerers, Folly and Mogdred. Who could fail to have their appetites both sated and whetted by this episode?

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Re: Series 1 - Episode 3

Post by Canadanne » Sat May 25, 2013 2:45 pm

Drassil wrote:This being Lawrence Werber's first episode, I contacted him about it and he was kind enough to reply. 'I am constantly being surprised by the amount of interest Knightmare continues to provoke. There is no doubt that it was ahead of its time, and it's nice to know people are still enjoying it.'
Oh, lucky! I emailed him about Knightmare once (praising his work as Cedric and asking if he voiced the first dragon) but didn't get a reply. Thanks for sharing what he wrote. :)

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Re: Series 1 Episode 3

Post by wombstar » Sat May 25, 2013 5:00 pm

Getting an easy ride this team.

What would Merlin giving them if they got all three riddles correct?
What if they got 2 or more correct from the guard?

It's clear the produces needed a team early on to progress and show off the dungeon. They fluffed up in the first level 2 room but were giving a few extra rooms to play in for the sake of the audience I think.

Kinda lucky they took the 'headache pills' but im sure Merlin would have wanted the gold had they taking that instead? Plus the added M puzzle was a nice addition.

Also we see them using the symbol unlike the first team, and the door takes us into the same room, it's clear from this team 1 really screwed up and should have died in a bomb room. Anyway.. looking forward to Folly whenever he appears.. far better than the irritating Motley in later series.
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Re: Series 1 Episode 3

Post by HobGoblin » Sat May 25, 2013 9:33 pm

The consensus seems to be that the production team is deliberately making the dungeon more interesting in this episode, possibly artificially extending the team's quest.

I wonder if the catacombite was actually originally intended to be a level 3 encounter - it certainly has the necessary level of spectacle and nastiness. When it was clear from the first couple of teams that it was unlikely that level 3 would be reached, was an early appearance of this monster contrived in order to show it off?

As for Simon the dungeoneer, I particularly like it when he says "now where am I?" as if he's thoroughly fed up of wandering around a big blue studio.
Extreme warning team, a Hobgoblin in the level!

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Re: Series 1 Episode 3

Post by Canadanne » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:26 pm

I've just seen the impressive viewing figures for this episode - it was the 5th most watched programme of the entire week on Challenge, with an audience of 121,000!

1 TNA IMPACT (SUN 2100) 178,000
2 CLASSIC WHO WANTS TO BE A MILLIONAIRE S1 (THU 2101) 158,000
3 CLASSIC WHO WANTS TO BE A MILLIONAIRE S1 (WED 2100) 146,000
4 CLASSIC WHO WANTS TO BE A MILLIONAIRE S1 (FRI 2101) 143,000
5 KNIGHTMARE (FRI 2230) 121,000
6 FAMILY FORTUNES (THU 2030) 116,000
7 FUN HOUSE (FRI 2200) 115,000
8 FAMILY FORTUNES (FRI 2000) 105,000
9 FAMILY FORTUNES (THU 2000) 102,000
10 PRICE IS RIGHT (SUN 1801) 87,000

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Re: Series 1 Episode 3

Post by phillwin » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:40 pm

i surprise bulleyes not on the list 8-o and knightmare not higher :'( edit
Last edited by phillwin on Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Series 1 Episode 3

Post by JamesA » Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:18 pm

Canadanne wrote: 1 TNA IMPACT (SUN 2100) 178,000
2 CLASSIC WHO WANTS TO BE A MILLIONAIRE S1 (THU 2101) 158,000
3 CLASSIC WHO WANTS TO BE A MILLIONAIRE S1 (WED 2100) 146,000
4 CLASSIC WHO WANTS TO BE A MILLIONAIRE S1 (FRI 2101) 143,000
5 KNIGHTMARE (FRI 2230) 121,000
6 FAMILY FORTUNES (THU 2030) 116,000
7 FUN HOUSE (FRI 2200) 115,000
8 FAMILY FORTUNES (FRI 2000) 105,000
9 FAMILY FORTUNES (THU 2000) 102,000
10 PRICE IS RIGHT (SUN 1801) 87,000
I have to say, that is actually quite impressive.
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Re: Series 1 Episode 3

Post by pjmlfc05 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:07 pm

And even more viewers than Funhouse! Hope it will convince Challenge to show the rest of the series. Yes I agree the figures are impressive! :)
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Re: Series 1 Episode 3

Post by wombstar » Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:55 pm

Fun house is pretty naff, even back in the day it was a horrible excuse for a game show.

I want them to show TIME BUSTERS. that was great.
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Re: Series 1 Episode 3

Post by Canadanne » Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:17 pm

wombstar wrote:I want them to show TIME BUSTERS.
So do I!

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Re: Series 1 Episode 3

Post by pjmlfc05 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:34 pm

I have to admit I thought Funhouse was good.

I don't think I saw timebusters, was it similar to Knightmare?
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Re: Series 1 Episode 3

Post by wombstar » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:13 pm

It was made by the same company and feature many of the same actors.

All I remember was a time traveling bus, and the teams had to find a time capsule to get home... or something. a little hard to explain as I've not seen it since it was aired. It was all shot outside on locations, teams doing a lot of running around finding clues and puzzles to find this time capsule,
It's always the cracked ones that let the light in

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