New Knightmare Series 9 Idea

How might you change Knightmare if a new series were to be made?
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If there ever is to be a new series of Knightmare. Should the Knightmare Discussion Community be involved?

trongly Agree
8
50%
gree
4
25%
ot sure
1
6%
isagree
2
13%
trongly Disagree
1
6%
 
Total votes: 16

Fidjit
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New Knightmare Series 9 Idea

Post by Fidjit » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:28 pm

I realised this whilst I was working (chucking vegetables into the cupboard really). It sounded like a good idea, obviously there are strengths and weaknesses in my thoughts, but thats what this community is all about, sharing ideas and working (mostly) on them.

Do you reckon Knightmare.com Forum members would be a benefit to the series if one was to be planned. We, as a group and general members of the public, would know what the viewers might want or don't want to see.

Hope that made sense :-[

Over to you guys now... :)
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Re:New Knightmare Series 9 Idea

Post by Asteroid » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:04 pm

Undoubtedly it would Fidjit.

There is so much enthusiasm for Knightmare, that the good people who contribute to this forum would have invaluable input to a potential series nine.

Best wishes,

Asteroid.

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Re:New Knightmare Series 9 Idea

Post by Fidjit » Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:05 pm

The amount of reseach we can provide for the new series would be a real benefit. We can discuss new things to be introduced into the series and review them as it progresses. Then we can introduce new things and remove the ideas that didn't work so well, to maintain that perfect balance.

To me, sticking with either blue/green screen will be great, or to the same principle as the older series to be precise. But the special effects nowadays will make the scene far more realistic than the early days of Knightmare. (That is, keeping the background as artwork and computer generated elements to be vastly updated. Like picking up a piece of the Cup/Chalice, making those graphics more impeccable)

In my opinion, I'm glad the KnightmareVR idea was shelved because it had lost just about everything that its older and more popular counterpart had. Its no wonder many people I've spoked to disliked it. It reminds me of the Red Dwarf USA documentary. People gave nearly the same answer, "We hate it, we prefer the other one..."

Was the blue/green screen idea cheaper to run than creating brand new graphics altogether?
Last edited by Anonymous on Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re:New Knightmare Series 9 Idea

Post by Mystara » Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:41 pm

Definitely not!

As the maintainer of the BBK website, I see all the comments that get sent in for the petition.

Almost every single one is a strong opinion of what a new season of Knightmare should be like. Very few of them agree and fewer still actually provide a sensible reason for the justification.

The problem is that you just cannot isolate individual facets of the show. For example:

1) Due to the level of technology used in season 8, combined with the 'medieval' perspective of the show, you could make a season 9 of Knightmare identical in style to season 8.

But because technology has moved on so far, you could just as easily make an even more technologically advanced, better graphics version.

2) The idea of a dungeoneer wearing a helmet is classic to Knightmare. But let's not forget that it was mostly accidental. The original requirement of the helmet was because the dungeoneer could not see the dungeon. But with VR helmets, advanced computer systems and FPS games, that's no longer the case. The dungeoneer COULD see the environment.

So do you keep it 'retro' or do you advance the technology? Does that decision change if you consider your answer to question 1, above?

3) If your dungeoneer can see the dungeon, does that affect the number of advisors? After all, you don't need anyone to guide you if you can navigate around yourself.

The questions really go on. Whatever your answer to one question, another three spring up. Unless you were to keep things exactly as they were (which, let's face it, you wouldn't), the tree of possibilities just becomes far too difficult to manage.
Last edited by Mystara on Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re:New Knightmare Series 9 Idea

Post by Fidjit » Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:33 pm

That was an anti-climax :( Just a thought thats all...
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Re:New Knightmare Series 9 Idea

Post by Mystara » Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:25 pm

It is a good idea.
I just don't think it's possible.

Maybe I'm wrong though. Why not start a thread and examine how a new series would work?
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Re:New Knightmare Series 9 Idea

Post by Fidjit » Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:27 pm

Comparing ideas and getting information from people yeah? See what THEY'D like to see? What about a seperate webpage for this purpose?
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Re:New Knightmare Series 9 Idea

Post by Amorya » Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:12 pm

Some friends and I have planned out what we'd do if we were in charge of the next series of Knightmare. (At some point, we might try something like this out as a fan project.)

First and foremost, we'd go live. Film it in a theatre. Picture it as an audience member: you take your seats, and the orchestra strike up the Knightmare theme music. During this, the curtain opens to reveal the ante-chamber, where the advisors sit. (They sit facing the audience, watching a screen in front of them.) Behind the advisors is a big screen showing the view of the dungeon.

The blue room is next door. (I'm at Warwick university, and the Arts Centre there has a main theatre and a studio theatre next to each other: the latter would form the blue room.) When the dungeoneer is told to step boldly forwards, they are guided backstage and into the first room. As soon as the stagehand has positioned them correctly, the video feed is switched on.

We worked out that, with 40 or so technical staff (doubling up of roles for each of video, sound, graphics, stagehands, plus some overall coordinators), we could get scene changes down to under a minute. While one room is being played, the next is being prepared (i.e. the techies are loading the computer graphics they need, checking over all the props, etc). When the dungeoneer leaves a room, they spring into action, with the stagehands doing a rapid scene change, the graphics and video guys transferring control to the other team, and someone positioning the dungeoneer in the right place. With a very carefully scripted and rehearsed show and today's technology, there's no reason this should take any longer.

Doing all this, of course, means firstly that a live audience is feasible. (Also filming it for a TV show, of course, but who wouldn't want to see this live?) It also means that the teams are not waiting around for ages between rooms, so the quest has a more natural flow. Of course, it means that actors changing character couldn't happen very frequently (only in the interval, really).

So essentially we'd still be pushing the boundaries of modern tech, since we'd be doing all the same stuff but a lot faster.

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Re:New Knightmare Series 9 Idea

Post by Gizensha » Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:20 pm

mystara wrote: Definitely not!

As the maintainer of the BBK website, I see all the comments that get sent in for the petition.

Almost every single one is a strong opinion of what a new season of Knightmare should be like. Very few of them agree and fewer still actually provide a sensible reason for the justification.

The problem is that you just cannot isolate individual facets of the show. For example:

1) Due to the level of technology used in season 8, combined with the 'medieval' perspective of the show, you could make a season 9 of Knightmare identical in style to season 8.

But because technology has moved on so far, you could just as easily make an even more technologically advanced, better graphics version.

2) The idea of a dungeoneer wearing a helmet is classic to Knightmare. But let's not forget that it was mostly accidental. The original requirement of the helmet was because the dungeoneer could not see the dungeon. But with VR helmets, advanced computer systems and FPS games, that's no longer the case. The dungeoneer COULD see the environment.

So do you keep it 'retro' or do you advance the technology? Does that decision change if you consider your answer to question 1, above?

3) If your dungeoneer can see the dungeon, does that affect the number of advisors? After all, you don't need anyone to guide you if you can navigate around yourself.

The questions really go on. Whatever your answer to one question, another three spring up. Unless you were to keep things exactly as they were (which, let's face it, you wouldn't), the tree of possibilities just becomes far too difficult to manage.
The questions go on whatever method. Now... I'm not saying we should, in general I seem to find shows that the creators have a certain distance from the fandoms tend to come off better (which isn't to say that audience reactions are a bad thing, or that creators should never communicate/etc with fans, but... Look at the mess that 'listening to the fans' made of Heroes, for example)

Saying that:

I'd go with a combination of 3d environments and handdrawn ones. I believe the term is '2.5d matte paintings', where a matte painting is overlayed onto a simple 3d model, allowing dynamic camera movement within a matte painting - Thus getting the hand drawn goodness of the first three seasons combined with the ability to do dynamic camera angles which I believe has been stated was the reason for the shift to CGI environments. Also - A dungeoneer that can see the dungeon seems to not quite work 'right', based on the KMVR pilot, in my view.

Keep the three level rolling structure, and don't go for live I think. Either reinstate the life force to its dominance in the first three seasons or drop it and come up with other methods of hurrying teams along. And there shouldn't be any filler rooms (And I think I'd include dwarf tunnels as in S3 in that category, if you want to go for the more varied vista, just call them 'magic portals connecting there to here, sometimes there is is a single room away from here, othertimes a continent', and I'd certainly include Eye Shield segments in that.)

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