The new KM episode is up!

Discussion about Knightmare in youtube's Geek Week.
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Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by Mystara » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:03 pm

Not saying nuffink.

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Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by shadow6162 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:15 pm

shadow6162 wrote:...and Phil was really clever to figure out the clue to spell out thief.

Wait, why did I put thief?! My apologies, that should say "feet" XDDD
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Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by fluttermoth » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:35 pm

shadow6162 wrote:
shadow6162 wrote:...and Phil was really clever to figure out the clue to spell out thief.

Wait, why did I put thief?! My apologies, that should say "feet" XDDD
I did notice there were a lot of potential words in there; 'star', 'fear', 'step', amongst others.

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Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by Peter » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:45 pm

Hi guys. Long time Knightmare fan here, just joined the boards and made a first post in the newbies section! I have a lot to say about this new episode and do agree with some of the things you guys are saying, but I might be a different type of fan since I preferred the later series of the show (controversial maybe?) But I will get into that tomorrow when I get home from work and draught a better response.

For now though just let me join you in rejoicing in the fact that I just watched a NEW Knightmare episode for the first time in over 15 years!!

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Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by beveryafraid » Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:12 pm

OK: some notes on the reprised Knightmare.
Google didn't want us to show them what a new show would look like, and although they wanted the players to be adult geeks, they were hooked on nostalgia, They also wanted me to take full advantage of two new members of cast who were brought in by them at no small expense. Actually I thought both new girls were excellent.
When it became clear that we had neither the time nor cash to rebuild the live set, I opted for a virtual one as the only choice. We had no time in which to build anything more than basic, so to conceal its deficiencies I packed the opening with a few special effects (like Treguard's transformation) to 'busy' things up. Unfortunately this had the side-effect of slowing things down, and the front of the programme lacked pace. For those of you who remember the Knighmares of the 80s with the aid of 19 years worth of rose-tinted glasses, I would remind you that those programmes often had less pace than a tortoise.
Setting the game difficulty level for a team of highly intelligent adults (no matter what some of you thought of them - they were just that), was also problematic. And I thought we got that about right. Few of the best children's teams would have survived the 18 odd minutes of game-play we threw at them, let alone the scenes you did not see. They coped faultlessly with most of the logic puzzles, and were cruising towards a point when we were planning to freeze time and give them an honourable draw, when they suddenly did something quite silly and killed off their dungeoneer. The credit for this goes to 'Slice Me Dice Me' simply one of the best puzzles we've ever used in Knightmare, and one which also offers immense flexibility and genuine threat.
This team of adults were so intimidated by the giant blades that they neglected to 'shuffle' Stuart to the edge of his 'safe' pallet, from which point the jump to the next causeway was practical.
Given the unexpected bonus of a dramatic ending to the show, I then had to chop seven minutes from the adventure scenario in order to accommodate it, and I don't regret doing so, even if some of the edits did inevitable telegraph themselves even to an inexpert audience. Losing a couple of strategic cut-aways to a software glitz when encoding, didn't help either.
It was interesting and intriguing pitching game at adults, the more so because there is little chance in today's market for Knightmare re-emerging as a children’s show. Neither is it likely to re-appear in a half hour format, because today even game-show formats eschew this, and a dramatised adventure game of any ambition will need more time and space to breath.
The short form also renders them financially prohibitive.
I understand why some of you felt moved to criticise, but believe me when I claim pre-eminence in the matter of criticism. Although I’m saddened that some of you didn’t like the new show, it doesn’t particularly surprise me. It wasn’t made only for you, but to address the demands of a commercial client who had their own legitimate agenda, and no vested interest in the future or otherwise of the format.
TC

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Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by Canadanne » Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:20 pm

I will post more detailed thoughts later on, but the death was hilarious, especially Treguard's line "Stuart has reached Level 3, but not in the way he intended" - LMAO! ;D

Btw, I thought Daisy had said the F-word for a moment too, but I rewound it to check and she clearly says "heck"!

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Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by malibupete » Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:23 pm

Thanks for the insights, Tim - I hope I speak for the vast majority though when I say that by and large we're thrilled that you've been able to bring us any new Knightmare of any form - any nitpicking is just that; as geeks, and as people with a large emotional investment in and familiarity with the show, we're always going to be looking at it far more critically than the casual viewers - I've seen nothing but excellent feedback among my 'regular' friends who have seen it!

Whether it turns out to be a last hurrah or a new beginning, thanks for resurrecting the Greater Game one more time :)

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Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by dugeoneerborne » Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:28 pm

Upon seening this episode a 2nd time I warmed to it more, granted I wasn't too keen on the first few minutes or some of the advisors trying to make it about them, I thought The dungeoneer was great and he really took the role seriously, lord fear, treguard, lissard were all great same with the new assistant.

It was great and hopefully if this does well enough it'll have a series again ( I'm still kicking Myself for not going to Norwich studios a few weeks ago to say hello to Hugo and Knight, if I get another chance I'll definetly show that fanart) & more then anything I'd definetly love to be on this show (as a dungeoneer, My younger brother and older brother were big fans of the series as well growing up, maybe it's still a pipedream but if I ever got the chance and if it could happen I'd gladly do it), just like everyone else here it would be a great honor to meet the mm cast, Tim childs.

Tim: All I can say is thanks for bringing km back for this revival, it's like it never left & it's something the world needs more of today (same with crystal maze) & Hugo still show's he knows how to scare the bejesus out of you (at the end of the episode), km was something I loved as a kid and still do, like blackadder it's got a real timeless feel, I really enjoyed the slice em dice em room as well, looks like the team should've got the dungeoneer further back from the ledge before jumping.
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Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by Drassil » Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:10 pm

malibupete wrote:I watched it before I went to work this morning...
It's a little depressing to consider how the average watcher has gone from running home from school to watch a fresh episode of Knightmare to fitting it in before a 9-to-5. Time goes by and not all of us wear the past 19 years as lightly as Hugo Myatt! On the other hand, the idea of having something new and Knightmarish at breakfast time reminds me of going to play Bamboozle on Teletext one morning and finding a Knightmare game in its place. :)

"REFRESH" seemed like a good nod to the importance of computer graphics and video games to the genesis of Knightmare. Presumably it broke whatever spell Lord Fear had cast over Treguard to make him look so decrepit and tired. ;) The 11th Doctor regenerating into the 12th Doctor will be hard pushed to follow the 1st Treguard regenerating into the 1st Treguard. :D

Treguard, if Knightmare returns again, please amend the Adventurer's Code to forbid visible underwear in the antechamber. And please, give us that stare at the end of the episodes, not just Daisy!

I like the way that some of the CGI rooms recreated particular hand-painted rooms from Series 1-3. (The unused wall monster room is also the one in which the Knightmare Live actors were photographed.) I also liked the idea of Ariadne making an entire level her lair and stalking intruders, which harked back to Series 4.

The new characters all have potential. Knightmare already had a Sylvester, complete with "Sylvester the -ester" jokes, so I wish the jester had been given a different name. Chester, Hester, Fester ("Shuddup, Fester!" etc). I liked Treguard's mentions of the previous jesters, something that Knightmare Live also does.

Lissard was never my favourite character, and I'm afraid Geek Week Knightmare didn't change that. I'd have enjoyed seeing Cliff Barry reprise Brother Strange: it would have been fun hearing the team settle on a proverb or perhaps make one up.

My favourite part of the episode was Lord Fear's comment at the end of the first spyglass scene. Noticing the satire in Knightmare is one of the aspects that makes it adult-worthy.

The team could have got further if they hadn't missed the short cut to Level 3. Did you spot it from the sidelines as they were going along, Alan? ;)

I'm glad that Slice Me Dice Me got another outing. The team seemed to make the same judgement error that Scott's team made in Series 3: they jumped when they could have taken a long step. But I'm impressed that they had worked out the correct route.

Thank you to everyone involved with this, and good luck with whatever you do next.

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Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by DarkComet » Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:38 pm

Longer review to come later. For now:

Thoroughly enjoyed. Looked great. Could see everyone having so much fun. Really want more. I hope there will be more.
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Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by Mystara » Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:50 pm

Drassil wrote: The team could have got further if they hadn't missed the short cut to Level 3. Did you spot it from the sidelines as they were going along, Alan? ;)
Indeed. I believe the team actually took the short cut to level 3 though? >:-]
Drassil wrote: I'm glad that Slice Me Dice Me got another outing. The team seemed to make the same judgement error that Scott's team made in Series 3: they jumped when they could have taken a long step. But I'm impressed that they had worked out the correct route.
While Slice Me Dice Me was being set up, I recall deciding that it's a VERY hard room. Taking a long step when you're blindfolded is tricky, but possible. You can, after all, extend your leg across and then transfer your body over if your leg is in the right place. Jumping is another matter entirely. While blindfolded, you can't even tell how far you're about to jump, let alone how far you've actually jumped, because you lose all sense of relative location when your feet leave the floor. Having to jump the correct distance several times is, therefore, extremely hard.

However, I'm not entirely convinced that a long step was possible here. The distance looks too great to do it safely. Remember that if you overbalance in taking a long step, you'll lean forward and your extended leg hits the floor. If it's in the pit, you fall.

Add the difficulty of the axes, which seems to discourage a team from slowly taking a long step, and I think you have the making of a very hard room. The team's reaction to the axes, though, is priceless :)
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Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by HStorm » Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:22 pm

Hmm, well... generally a great bit of nostalgia, but let me get a few gripes out of the way first.

The first few minutes were - sorry but I'm gonna say it - pretty awful. So much time wasted listening to the new assistant effectively telling, in an enormously convoluted way, the archaic joke about, "Ah'm gonna clean up dis town... no, I'm *literally* gonna clean it, where's the broom?" You don't like your job, Verruca? Right, sure, we get it already! Did you need to take up the first five minutes of the show telling us that? Knightmare works best when it gets to the action quickly, and set-piece intros like these always take too long - they usually got longer and longer with each passing season. Don't continue that pattern, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease! GET RID.

Actually, what was the point of Daisy/Verruca at all? Nothing against Isy Suttie, who wasn't bad in the role, but what was the point of the character? Once the intro was (FINALLY!!!!!) over, she hardly said anything for most of the episode. I've said it many times before and I'll keep saying it. Treguard doesn't need assistants to help him present the programme, and he never did. They would do no harm as dungeon characters, but in the antechamber? GET RID.

And it's a shame they decided to use the third version of the title music, which has always been by far and away the weakest. Get rid...

Once all that infantile stuff with Daisy was got out of the way, however, things turned much, much better very quickly. As you'd expect, the visuals have come on a very long way, and it was great to see some of the classic architecture of the early seasons upgraded to more modern resolutions. Interesting also to have even the Great Hall in CGI now. Bit of a culture shock to see the old level one and level three clue rooms in sequence like that, but also a great 'nostalgia-gasm'.

Also wonderful to see 'Slice-Me-Dice-Me' retained and refurbished from Knightmare VR. It always looked the most promising puzzle from the last revival attempt, and it looks like the new standard for quest-killer-extraordinaire.

The new CGI incarnation of Ariadne was far creepier than the video-clip version from the series, because for the first time we genuinely couldn't predict what she would do.

Had to rewatch the scene with the bomb a couple of times before I understood what happened. Still not completely sure that using the IGNITE spell at that point was necessary.

Hugo Myatt was on great form, like he'd never been away. He seems in some scenes to have really brought back the very sinister quality of the early Treguard. Especially good was his delivery of his old, "It's only a game... isn't it?" sign-off at the end. Oh the 12-year-old me was shivering and smiling all at once! The original 'Lion In Winter' outfit still suits him, even if the changes to the colours look a little too exotic. It was also interesting to watch him as the team manoeuvred around, as he seemed to adopt a very uneasy, wincing expression, as if to say, "Young-uns today, they just don't know how it's done!" Could've done without some of the asides to the camera early on though.

Mark Knight and Cliff Barry came across as under-used, but that was probably more because the team didn't get very far into level 2 than because of bad writing. It was again great to see them back in action (why did you not take part in KMVR, Cliff?!?), but I have to say again that the new Lord Fear outfit is wrong in every way. Not just the bizarre shape of the headwear, but the whole costume from tip to toe. Excellent make-up though, for both characters, and even if their voices were a little croakier than they once were, they were still in every way the voices of Lord Fear and Lissard as only they can play them. (And yes, I'm saying that as someone who has played Lord F quite a few times myself.)

As for the new characters, they were somewhat generic. Sylvester the jester is not a jester, he never comes up with a single joke in either the scenes he appears in, just talking in a stereotype medieval style of speech. He more reminds me of Brother Strange than of Folly or Motley. It also doesn't help that his name has already been taken previously in the KM universe. But he was very well performed.

Less impressive was Theodora, who came across as just Sylvester-Hands-sans-beard-and-other-bits, even commenting in a very Sly-Hands way on the way the dungeoneer can't see anything. The way she was acted was also a bit EastEnders.

I refuse to believe that the "You're-in-a-room-I'll-need-a-bit-more-info-than-that" bit wasn't an entirely deliberate swipe at teams from the series. Sounded like it was lifted from the Knightmare Audio Series in fact.

I suspect the general lack of incidental music and sound effects was due to lack of budget, but in truth I found the absence of the former most welcome. I often found the music crow-barred into later seasons to be nothing more than a signpost telling the audience that this is the moment you are supposed to be scared, and it felt a lot less condescending to be free of it here.

But that goblin horn sound effect? Dear oh dear.

The team were kind of fun, if a little dominated by the guy on the left. (No, I don't know his name. Sorry for my sketchy YouTube knowledge.)

Oh well, it was largely worth waiting for, but as I say, it would've been even better if it hadn't over-embellished the beginning with irrelevant, unfunny, time-consuming rubbish. Always great to see Hugo and Mark back in their career-roles though!

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Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by HStorm » Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:37 pm

I deliberately made sure I wrote and posted the above review before I read anyone else's thoughts - I sometimes find my opinions being shifted by reading other people's views, as though I feel sheepish for thinking differently, so the most honest thing to do is just say what I think before I dare to look at anything else. But it's interesting to see that most of my thoughts, especially about the beginning of the episode, seem to be more or less unanimous.

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Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by HobGoblin » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:16 pm

Didn't slice me dice me work in the context of KMVR because the dungeoneer could see the puzzle? It does seem almost impossible when translated to the traditional KM format. Last obstacle of the quest hard at the very least but perhaps unworkable.

Treguard is very subdued though, right up to the final scene. My girlfriend asked if Hugo was ill...!

Re. the swearing - several times through headphones I heard the f word - even with my eyes shut tight, willing myself to hear 'heck'

Just watched it on my TV - pretty sure it's 'heck'.
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Re: The new KM episode is up!

Post by Strike » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:17 pm

Peter wrote:Hi guys. Long time Knightmare fan here, just joined the boards and made a first post in the newbies section! I have a lot to say about this new episode and do agree with some of the things you guys are saying, but I might be a different type of fan since I preferred the later series of the show (controversial maybe?) But I will get into that tomorrow when I get home from work and draught a better response.

For now though just let me join you in rejoicing in the fact that I just watched a NEW Knightmare episode for the first time in over 15 years!!
Welcome, you are not alone mate. I also prefer the later series of Knightmare! :) Well apart from the first few minutes was a good episode, my only gripe is the fact it felt a bit too much based on the early series but still loved it and would love the show to be back! :)

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