Knightmare urban myths

Series, Teams, History, Behind the scenes etc. - all discussed here.
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Re: Knightmare urban myths

Post by Billy » Tue May 27, 2014 10:40 pm

MYTH: The 'Dark Knight' in Children's BBC's 'Incredible Games' was played by Mark Knight.

Heard this at the convention - apologies if the person who said it is reading this! It was a guy called Simon Shelton, who according to Wikipedia later played Tinky Winky from the Teletubbies of all things. I assumed at first that wasn't true and it's someone having a laugh, but enough outside evidence seems to back it up.

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Re: Knightmare urban myths

Post by Canadanne » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:04 pm

I am curious as to what this guy was thinking of, as it clearly wasn't Knightmare! ("Did anyone ever see the new KnightMare quite a few years back ... There were a few episodes on a GameShow channel that just had adults on it." Apparently not a reference to the Geek Week episode, which he didn't know about, and which was only a one-off and not shown on TV. It can't have been the TimeGate trailer either.)

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Re: Knightmare urban myths

Post by shadow6162 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:22 pm

I just tweeted the guy, asking if he was possibly thinking of another show, I'm waiting on a responce :p

Another personal myth of mine, and linking to a friend who believed this too, was that Hordriss betrayed Treguard in series 6 and helped him to release the Red Dragon. Before I rediscovered Knightmare, I always remembered one of my favourite moments to be when Treguard defeats the dragon, but my memory must have been mixed up because I always remembered Hordriss talking to Lord Fear in the pool right before the dragon was released. And my friend initially thought that Hordriss was all bad so she ended up assuming she was in league with Lord Fear too.

Obviously my memory got muddled and I somehow replaced the moment where Hordriss warns Treguard with the moment when Hordriss is demanding Lord Fear to release Sidriss. But hey, I was just a kid, my memories got mixed up a lot back then XD

UPDATE: I just got a reply: "I could've sworn there was an episode where they got guys from an old episode, who are now in their mid 30s on it." Does anyone have any idea about what he's referring to?
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Re: Knightmare urban myths

Post by wombstar » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:04 am

I liked early Hordriss when ie was neither good or bad, he kinda became a good guy to replace Merlin.

Gameshow channel is probably challenge and the only thing i can think off could be Fort Boyard.. but that has more in common with Crystal Maze. Unless he saw some classic Crystal Maze they did have a KM style game one year.
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Re: Knightmare urban myths

Post by Drassil » Sat May 16, 2020 3:09 pm

Myth: There was a US version of Knightmare called Helmet Castle Kids.
Origin: The Wikipedia entry on Knightmare. It specifies that Helmet Castle Kids ran from 20 September 1988 to 8 March 1990. This is replicated in other wikis.
Reality: Over to Tim Child.
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The 1992 US Pilot - Lords of the Game
beveryafraid wrote:
Tue May 27, 2003 5:23 pm
In 1993 we kept all the staff and cast on for two days at the end of series production and made a 30 minute pilot for the US market, entitled Lords of the Game.

All the cast were used except Hugo who was replaced by an American actor. Players were provided by the US Air base at Mildenhall in Suffolk.

The pilot was not successful, US production companies being terrified of Cromakey-based shows, because of the technical complexity.

Was it made in 1992 or 1993? From watching it at the Knightmare Convention we know it was 1992: it used characters and scenarios from Knightmare Series 6.

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Re: Knightmare urban myths

Post by Billy » Sat May 16, 2020 3:19 pm

Thanks for bringing that to my attention - while Wikipedia is an open encyclopedia for all, I feel quite protective about the Knightmare article as it was me who turned it from a small "stub" article to the bigger one you see today in May of 2005. With assistance from Brollachan (photos) and Drassil (copyediting/factual corrections) of this forum, as well as Tim Child himself who helped me via email!

The reference to 'Helmet Castle Kids' was added to the article on January 24th 2020, by a user's only edit to the website. I'm fairly sure the show doesn't exist at all and it's just someone having a laugh, so as of today I've reverted their edit and removed the reference.

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Re: Knightmare urban myths

Post by HStorm » Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:42 pm

shadow6162 wrote:
Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:22 pm
"I could've sworn there was an episode where they got guys from an old episode, who are now in their mid 30s on it." Does anyone have any idea about what he's referring to?
Maybe he's confusing memories of one of the promo clips for Timegate?

MYTH: The final quest in season 8, Team 7, was just eight minutes long, the shortest of all time.
REALITY: Poor ol' Aqash's team (S02 T06) had the shortest quest of all time at just shy of ten minutes. (And given the strong rumours of a fix to get them past the clue room, they were lucky to last that long.) The quest time for S08 T07 - Oliver's team - appears to have been miscounted originally back in the days of 'knightmare.clara.net' around 2000, as a re-check a few years later found that their adventure instead lasted about thirteen minutes before end-of-season intervened.
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Re: Knightmare urban myths

Post by Morghanna » Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:28 pm

MYTH: The final quest in season 8, Team 7, was just eight minutes long, the shortest of all time.
REALITY: Poor ol' Aqash's team (S02 T06) had the shortest quest of all time at just shy of ten minutes. (And given the strong rumours of a fix to get them past the clue room, they were lucky to last that long.) The quest time for S08 T07 - Oliver's team - appears to have been miscounted originally back in the days of 'knightmare.clara.net' around 2000, as a re-check a few years later found that their adventure instead lasted about thirteen minutes before end-of-season intervened.
I assumed that Akash et al had the shortest quest ever (altho it woz amazing how much entertainment they crammed into such a short time :D ) but according to this website, S2 T1 had the shortest quest ever.
S2 T1 were not a bad team, just a little unlucky, scoring 2/3 in the clue room and guessing wrongly on a 50/50 clue object choice, like several other early teams.
(S1 T1,2,5 and S3 T1 were also close contenders for shortest quest ever.)
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Re: Knightmare urban myths

Post by HStorm » Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:48 pm

Okay, I've checked the two quests, and you're correct, although there's only half a minute in it. Curiously, were it not for a mistake Aqash's team were halfway through making before correcting, it would probably have been the other way.

Measuring from the instant the dungeoneer steps through the dungeon door, to the instant the terminal life-force clock slides onto the screen, I found the quest lengths were as follows; -

S02 T01's quest lasted 9m 41s.
S02 T06's quest lasted 10m 11s.

In the chamber before his death scene, the GCotC, had Aqash not started out going for the right hand exit before being reminded about his quest object, stopping and going left instead, his quest would probably have been the shortest of all time.

The final team in season 8 doesn't come close to being the shortest.
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Re: Knightmare urban myths

Post by Morghanna » Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:04 pm

Yes, as you say their quest could have been even shorter. They also had a rather pointless empty room first-up, which added time.

:question: Is this fact or urban myth? Akash & co would have had an even shorter quest, as they originally scored 0/3 in the clue-room. However, the producers weren't able to depict Igneous devouring the dungeoneer, so the "TRUTH" spell scene with the troll was filmed afterwards to ensure they got at least 1/3 when they re-took the Igneous scene.
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Re: Knightmare urban myths

Post by Pooka » Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:15 pm

That's a rumour. It's unsubstantiated, and I'm not sure anyone in the production team would remember, seeing as how it was so long ago. Maybe Akash's team know, but as to find them...

Anyway, my guess would be that this is true. My reasons for this are:

(i) Having a dungeoneer death as early as the first wall monster encounter wasn't ever intended to happen. (I'm fairly certain that a death animation could have been done, probably the wall monster saying something like, "FALSEHOOD! Now I feed on YOU!" and the life force suddenly appearing on screen in the depths of condition red). But this wouldn't have made for good television...

(ii) ...or even make the time and expense involved in starting an incredibly short quest worthwhile. The team had clearly passed the interview process, although quite how may be a mystery; they had earned their chance to be on Knightmare. Dying after five minutes is a very short time and doesn't make for any sort of excitement! It's hardly a quest at all!

(iii) Given the above two, it wasn't kosher for the production team to present the Watchers with a short, boring, lame-duck quest.

(iv) Lillith has already proven herself useful as a way of disposing dungeoneers who weren't going to finish level 1 (in most cases, by not taking the right item from the clue room), and Akash certainly hadn't taken it. Not getting any information from the wall monster didn't indicate that he should take the ice pack (although I would have - always take the unusual item!), and not doing so put the team in losing status.

(v) Adding a couple of rooms after the clue room itself made this feel like a more complete quest, and if the team were going to die anyway, let the Watchers think that, despite their bad start, they may have a chance.

(vi) Taking all the above into account, let's imagine that the team did, in fact, score zero during the wall monster encounter. This was so early on in the quest that it would have been easier, perhaps, to re-start the thing and insert the troll encounter in order to guarantee the team at least one truth. The troll encounter seems completely incongruous to me - particularly being so early on, as well; I'd expect encounters of this sort to take place later in Level 1 or Level 2 and certainly later than the Level 1 clue room - lending credence to the fact that this was inserted in at relatively short notice.

So I say that, given the evidence available, this rumour may indeed be true!

If it is true, then the selection of the troll may be called into question. Surely this early in Level 1, someone like Folly or Gretel might be more suited to giving out the spell. Their appearance this early in the Level probably wouldn't be as surprising, either. Heck, put the kitchen room in and have Mildread give them the spell after an admonishment from Treguard! Maybe it was easier to load the chasm room, or Guy Standeven was available and in costume ready to go... whatever the scenario, I think that it all lends credence to the rumour!
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Re: Knightmare urban myths

Post by HStorm » Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:45 pm

My reasons for thinking the rumoured 'fix' is probably true are; -

Firstly, there's no Wheel Of Fate scene, the only quest in which it's missing in S2. It suggests to me that the 4-door chamber was put in subsequently to replace it, because they needed to add in an entrance to the troll scene, when the ledge cavern probably hadn't been on the Wheel originally.

Secondly, the key one for me, the effect of the TRUTH spell. Spells, like clue objects, are given out with a view to what is going to be needed later in the level i.e. there is almost always a specific situation scripted in later, and the spell will always have the necessary effect to resolve it. How could the crew possibly have known in advance that the team would not know the answer to any of the riddles in the clue room? If they didn't, and there wasn't some kind of engineering going on, it's got to be the luckiest coincidence in the series' history that such a generic spell was doled out to this particular team.

Thirdly, since when did the troll have any magic?

Fourth, wasn't the troll talked around incredibly easily, to convince him, not just to let Aqash go, but also to give him the spell? This has to be the most cheaply-earned spell ever, and it makes a nonsense of all other scenes with the troll, where objects or magic are required to get past him. All that faffing about with the invisibility talisman by team 12, when all they really had to do was tell the troll, "Don't eat me, I don't taste nice!!!!" and then he'd not only let them pass, he'd give them a 'thank you' spell too?

Fifth, a member of the first team in season 3 revealed in the early-2000s that they died on the snake-tongue bridge in the Serpent's Mouth Cavern, but were allowed to re-film it because the next team hadn't arrived yet. This could easily have been the same kind of situation, and Neil Payne's team may not have got to the studio as yet.

The whole thing reeks of contrivance. Nonetheless, the rumour has never been formally corroborated.
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Re: Knightmare urban myths

Post by Morghanna » Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:35 pm

Yes, i agree that the story seems plausible. Both of you present very convincing cases for the theory.
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