Book

[Canadanne]

Canadanne - I might be wrong but I get the feeling Dave Morris would engage with you on such queries. Might be worth asking him via Twitter or his blog...?

I suspect Dave Morris wouldn't have the answers as it was Tim Child who wrote the original story, and even he might not remember the details after so long!

[fluttermoth]

They really are worth reading. Well, the first four are; the later two just make me sneer

There were actually three later ones (the 'Yearling' titles they were called) - The Forbidden Gate, The Dragon's Lair, and Lord Fear's Domain. But I agree they were quite infantile, and if there's one of them you haven't read, believe me, you've missed very little.

I though Lord Fears Domain was just a puzzle book? That's the one I don't have. (Well, I do now, thank you Amazon and your penny books!)

The original line of four books was clearly superior. While still not exactly anything to challenge Tolstoy, they were a more satisfying read, and the stories were set firmly in their own era, with no links to the future - Treguard clearly had no knowledge in them of our own time.

Yes, they're very internally consistent and actually quite sophisticated, in their own way. Treguurd is, inevitably I suppose, a much more rounded figure. I even had to look up a couple of words, which hardly ever happens to me nowadays! ('Flensing' and 'miniver'; not bad for a kid's book

[Canadanne]

I though Lord Fears Domain was just a puzzle book?

The puzzles are sort of woven into a storyline.

Yes, they're very internally consistent

Except the timeline - the fourth book totally contradicts the earlier ones!

[Reboot]

*also wouldn't mind seeing a book forum*

They usually have copies on Amazon (I buy extra copies to give away to people )

They come up on eBay as well - I picked the first four books up (separately) for around a tenner total, including P&P, a couple of months back. Although that was before the new episode was announced, which may have spiked prices.

They really are worth reading. Well, the first four are; the later two just make me sneer

I don't know about the fourth. #1-3 are fairly good, but I didn't finish Sorcerer's Isle.

The original line of four books was clearly superior. While still not exactly anything to challenge Tolstoy, they were a more satisfying read, and the stories were set firmly in their own era, with no links to the future - Treguard clearly had no knowledge in them of our own time.

Which is odd in the case of the fourth. #1-3 seemed like they were set before the TV show, but by bringing in Pickle and having Treguard live in the Middle East for years (!), #4 had to be "between series" of the show.

One interesting peculiarity in the books is the portrayal of Pickle; he is always described as being an imp. On one occasion, a character says, "You look like an elf!" to which Pickle replies, "You look like a baboon!" I don't know whether that exchange was meant to be defiance on the part of Dave Morris against the series, by insisting that Pickle is not an elf.

Also, he's stored in a bottle for an extended time in book 4, ala Majida's introduction on the TV show.

[wombstar]

*also wouldn't mind seeing a book forum*

They usually have copies on Amazon (I buy extra copies to give away to people )

They come up on eBay as well - I picked the first four books up (separately) for around a tenner total, including P&P, a couple of months back. Although that was before the new episode was announced, which may have spiked prices.

I've got hold of the first book, for about a total of £2.50 on ebay.
I saw one go the other week for about £4. I'm kinda pleased because I received it in the post today and it's be pretty good condition, couldn't get much better really for it's age, I was worried they might be all bent and creased.

It's quite a long book, might take me a month to read

When I was a kid I loved those choose your own adventure book, I use to have loads of the Lone wolf series, unfortunately my teachers absolutely hated them, got to the point where they wouldn't let write book reviews on them. I thought they were a great way to get kids reading who didn't really like reading.

[HobGoblin]

Have been trying to unpick the mythology of the first novella but have given up!

My initial reading was that the Gruagach/KM Castle was indeed Hades, with the dungeon being Tartarus. Perhaps Leahra is a play on Lyra - as in the lyre of Orpheus which beguiled Hades. The city of sticks could be a play on Styx ie Treguard traveling to the underworld to gain something to defeat The Lord of the underworld.

There are also parallels between Treguard's quest to defeat the Gruagach and Perseus' quest to defeat medusa - Perseus collected a sword, mirrored shield etc.

Gruagach is a Gaelic word for a brownie or hobgoblin (in the traditional sense of small goblin rather than the Tolkien/KM sense of large goblin) and doesn't really fit with the devil-like antagonist. It is, though, associated with Northern England and the Scottish Borders.

But none of this really hangs together as a direct interpretation, though someone with a better knowledge of classical mythology and folklore might be able to come up with something! But the KM world seems to be a mish mash of Greek myths, Arthurian legend and English folklore (the Robin Hood bit!) and it's probably best just to take it on its own terms.

[wombstar]

They've taking ideas from all sorts of places to create something new I guess.

The Medusa/Gorgon did appear in the series after all, and of course Merlin.

It's such a pick n' mix when you study it.

[Canadanne]

Interesting observation re: City of the Sticks / Styx, HobGoblin - I hadn't thought of that!

I was trying to figure out the origin of "glaschwights", as Google comes up with zero results that aren't related to this book. The nearest I could find was that Glaschú is the Gaelic name for Glasgow... are they Scottish ghosts??

[wombstar]

Treguard slaying a dragon must be an obvious connection to the St Geroge myth I suppose.

But I was surprised to read about Robin Hood in the book, and more surprised they didn't have him in the series itself with season 4 and 5 taking place outside in the woods quite often,

[HStorm]

I imagine they didn't go for Robin Hood as a character because Tim Child was getting fed up of characters derived from old legends in the series. It's why Morghanna only lasted one season, and why he eventually got rid of Mogdred and Merlin too.

[Canadanne]

I was under the impression that John Woodnutt was unable to continue playing the roles for health reasons, after which he sadly passed away. I've not heard of those characters being axed for any reason other than Woodnutt simply not being available, so this is news to me.

I've never heard that he left for health reasons, and he continued acting for another decade after leaving Knightmare, so it seems unlikely. The only explanation I've ever seen is the one quoted by HStorm, from Tim Child's History of Knightmare. ("The Merlin/Mogdred scenario was exhausted (in any case I had always found it annoyingly derivative) and I was convinced that the drama game engine of Knightmare must be driven by a really solid baddy.")

[wombstar]

They had 4 years I guess can't keep things the same forever.
Pity they made no reference to their absence in series 5.

[DarkComet]

Pity they made no reference to their absence in series 5.

/begin Shameless Plug

If you would like that particular itch scratched, I highly recommend When Five Tribes Go To War. Set before and during Series 4, and transitions nicely between Merlin/Mogdred and the Lord Fear opposition.

/end Shameless Plug

[HStorm]

I was under the impression that John Woodnutt was unable to continue playing the roles for health reasons, after which he sadly passed away.

Never heard that one, and it doesn't seem to fit the facts, because John Woodnutt's death wasn't until 2006, some fifteen years after he left the series. He appeared in quite a few other programmes in the intervening time as well - frequent guest on Paul Merton's solo show, and in Jeeves & Wooster and Harry's Mad, in the mid-90's. It would be odd if he had to stop doing Knightmare due to ill-health but still carried on doing all of that.

[Canadanne]

(By the way, there are so many different conversations compiled into this one thread, do you think there ought to be a subforum for discussion of the books? I found a few other threads that might fit as well - here, here and here.)

Has any more thought been given towards creating a subforum for threads about the novellas / gamebooks?