Deaths that were both deserving and undeserving

[LiamABC]

OK, this is something I thought of writing as an article for TES, but couldn't think of enough teams to make it worth writing.

The idea is, dunegoneers whose deaths were both deserved AND underserved. I can think of two:

Series 3 - CLIFF.
Fair - they didn't listen to McGrew's pleas, didn't dispell DANCE, and so didn't have anyone to fight away the magic sword and push him down the minecart to level 3.
Unfair - Merlin had told him that the DANCE spell was a "DIVERSIONARY magic" - as in use it to create a diversion while making an escape. And casting the spell in the first place was the right thing to do, after all.

Series 8 - MIKE.
Fair - he reached the end of level 2, saw the trapdoor, and deliberately ignored it. As he reached the door, a fireball fried him, and rightly so. He ignored the route he was meant to take.
Unfair - there had been so much fuss made about the FLOAT spell in level 1 that they could be forgiven for thinking that they needed magic for this frapdoor as well.

[Canadanne]

Good topic. I think Mike was killed off because he took the wrong clue object (somehow the level would have played out differently and provided him with the necessary FLOAT magic), so it was fair and deserved, but they were certainly damned either way in the trapdoor room.

Cliff's death can indeed be debated forever - they got it wrong but I think it was very harsh, most teams probably would have done the same thing in the confusion of that scene. The same can be said of Helen (Series 4) with the long and short spells; I would have tried to use TRANSFORMATION against Mogdred as well.

The one that springs to mind for me is Nathan in Series 8. You can't really argue with his death - they guided him into a hole - but they were *such* a brilliant team that so deserved to win, and worse teams have been allowed to survive such missteps, and then Treguard implies they were punished for not securing Maldame's help. It feels massively unfair.

[LiamABC]

The one that springs to mind for me is Nathan in Series 8. You can't really argue with his death - they guided him into a hole - but they were *such* a brilliant team that so deserved to win, and worse teams have been allowed to survive such missteps, and then Treguard implies they were punished for not securing Maldame's help. It feels massively unfair.

Well, I was only really referring to the circumstances of the death itself - but you're right about some great teams dying very unfairly - like Leo, because they didn't know one very obscure piece of knowledge, or Danny, who has been called the most promising dungeoneer in series 1 but made a stupid mistake.

And if we're on the subject of stupid mistakes - well, that's a different topic altogether! Like James, who made a "series 1 mistake" in series 3, or Richard in series 8, which is even more excusable, one advisor insisting on taking a key because she presumed a key must by its very nature be useful!

[Drassil]

Series 4 - Team 4, Simon
Fair - he sidestepped left, there was a Knightmare hole to his left, Knightmare holes are generally a bit fatal.
Unfair - while the Block & Tackle followed the same disintegration sequence each time, the dungeoneer's entry point varied, and Simon's put him at a disadvantage. Had he shared Helen's point of entry further to the right, the team's directional error might not have had the down-and-outcome it did. There was also some funny business surrounding the death, i.e. it appears to me that they reshot it.

[JamesA]

I shall attempt to give my own contribution here, one that has nagged at me for ages:

Kelly (Series 3 Team 7)

Fair - They didn't take the crayon to create the necessary wellway into the next level, and as a result were despatched by Grimwold the Ogre.

Unfair - Let's be honest, the crayon was a very obscure item, and no other team from what I recall required such an item to progress (Julian of Series 2 Team 10 did take a quill with ink but it wasn't actually needed in the level, with him leaving it just before he made his way down to the next stage). Also, Kelly's team did actually get 2 out of Golgarach's 3 riddles correct, especially harsh given that others in the series got the same (or less) and managed to progress further, some less deserving than Kelly's to do so well. I did actually enjoy Kelly's quest and admittedly would have probably taken the rose and soap myself (the latter being the dud item, though it had been used to upset the monster's stomach) if I had gained one falsehood from Golgarach.

I can probably think of at least one more, but I felt that this was the quest that more warranted a mention here.

[knightmaredave]

Simon's quest series 3 episode 4 i think was dull they fell off the cliff that was dull
also i think the floor puzzle deaths in s5 got dull after the first 2 especially the grammar school boys in s5 who were just a bit slow- an unfair death i reckon

[Pooka]

Whether or not deaths were deserving doesn't really bother me - what's worse is when a team dies and it's clearly their fault (however good they might have been) and Treguard says something pithy suggesting they might have survived otherwise.

I think the way Daniel's team in series 8 were treated was pretty unfair. They were a really good team, when it comes down to it. I know some people think of them as a bit of a joke, but they were enthusiastic and committed and got really far into level 3.

Daniel was killed by a blade, but Treguard's suggestion that they needed a sight potion or seeing-eye spell to survive the CoB was poppycock. So many other teams survived the CoB - Dunstan and Oliver did later in the same series! - without any form of sight. I'm not going to go so far as to suggest that the production team deliberately killed Daniel because he took a red key (which he may well have actually needed as lots of puzzles required keys), but if it transpires that they did, then I wouldn't be surprised.

And Treguard's comment was unjustified. There are other examples, but that's the one that stands out for me.

[Zoe]

Daniel was killed by a blade, but Treguard's suggestion that they needed a sight potion or seeing-eye spell to survive the CoB was poppycock. So many other teams survived the CoB - Dunstan and Oliver did later in the same series! - without any form of sight. I'm not going to go so far as to suggest that the production team deliberately killed Daniel because he took a red key (which he may well have actually needed as lots of puzzles required keys), but if it transpires that they did, then I wouldn't be surprised.

And Treguard's comment was unjustified. There are other examples, but that's the one that stands out for me.

I think Daniel was in losing status once he had given up the sight potion. He was then given the corridor of blades as it had a relatively high chance of killing him off.

[johnw2738]

I think this is just a good topic to discuss on this thread, well who ever dies makes me upset no matter what

[SpectralScorpion]

Cliff from Series 3 remains my controversial death of choice, though I can't decide whether it was deserved or undeserved. McGrew only started pleading a second or so before they exited, but who's to blame? McGrew for speaking so late or Cliff and co. for making a hasty exit? To be honest I would have done the same thing and moved quickly on, as going by the series as a whole when a team cast a spell on someone else they didn't usually have to dispell it (unless it turned on them, of course).

[knightmaredave]

Season 6 Sofias team all the way to level 3:
no chance to answer the questions, low energy meant food was on the tile which by that time they'd bagged the food but the knight had struck the dot, ooh naasty, poor team i wish they'd have won more than anyone else because they were fast, witty and entertaining

[shadow6162]

What do you mean 'no time'? They had pleny of time, right? They just couldn't remember the answer.