Series 3 - Episode 3

[Pooka]

I had forgotten about the little 'chase sequences' where Grimwold or the goblins follow the dungeoneer. I enjoyed these they certainly up the pace of the quests.

I always thought the most irritating thing about the first three series was how slowly the quests are paced, especially when compared to something like series 7, where they are snappy and non-stop even without the Eye Shield!

The chase sequences certainly upped the ante in series 3, and were a step in the right direction IMHO.

[EvelynMason]

Not sure if it would constitute a 'chase' but I always enjoyed whenever the Automatum would appear and follow the dungeoneer in the very earliest series. Believe he was written out after Series 2 with the introduction of a new batch of character ideas, but always provided some tangible suspense and a level of fearful menace.

Unfortunately still haven't got round to viewing the new Series on challenge as yet due to other commitments but they're usually available on Youtube. Sure years ago there used to be a repeat edition at a later time either the same day or later the same week but for now, finding it difficult to catch the two broadcasts on a Sunday morning. (Don't have a recording device either it should be mentioned)

Never mind we'll find a way round this one way or the other.

[Morghanna]

A seemingly harsh ending for team 2.
They very calmly and efficiently evaded the pursuing goblins in the corridor of the catacombs and then thru the caverns (seen for the 1st time) before they encountered McGrew. Used their diversionary "DANCE" spell, but in their rush to escape they failed to notice him say that he would do anything to help them, if they released him....
In the next cavern there was no way thru the force-field into the mining tunnel and a haunting sword destroyed their life-force....
The ending seemed harsh as they had only moments to hear McGrew's pleas before they escaped. He was about to run Cliff thru before the spell was cast and they did not know whether he could be trusted if they did release him.
With the benefit of hindsight we know that McGrew was a dangerous character, but he was not evil, and if placated he could be very helpful. As in a later quest, he would have been able to fight off the haunting sword and then push the mine-cart thru the force-field to level 3.
Might this team have had an earlier let-off (which we did not see) which is why they received no prompting about dispelling from Treguard?

Team 3 were very hesitant with their directional movement, barely escaping the bomb room in time and nearly stepping over a cliff edge after a left/right mixup.
They were very bright however, 3/3 against Golgarach with no prompting at all.
Simon also seemed to have trouble hearing his advisors, especially when the ogre was roaring.
On the level 2 spindizzy when the bell sounded....

[AriadnesLayer]

I believe it was unfair that the team should have known to dispell the DANCE spell on McGrew.

To those justifying the decision by saying they ignored his pleas... hmmm... there's a difference between hearing something and choosing to ignore it, and not knowing to listen in the first place.

They had just put a spell on this guy, cursing him to dance against his will. Obviously the character is going to be yelling objections - who wouldn't? There is no way for them to know they are supposed to just stand there and listen.

The spell seems like it exists as a way for them to get away from this enemy. And so they cast it, and get away. They're doing what they think they're supposed to be doing. They're not hearing his pleas and choosing to ignore them.

They're not psychic. Seems unfair that they were supposed to know that's not what the writers had in mind. I notice a fair bit of this in the early series and thankfully less so from Series 4 onwards.

A different approach by the actor (and hence, the director, telling the actor what to do) would have been better. Instead of dancing around the room yelling unintelligible babble, why wasn't he grabbing hold of the dungeoneer, clealry begging for the spell to be lifted in exchange for help? Again, the team aren't psychic. From their point of view, the character of McGrew is doing exactly what you'd expect someone to do when they have a DANCE spell put on them.

Having said all that...

This action leading to the team's death may seem unfair in isolation. But looking at their quest as a whole, perhaps less so.

The above poster ponders that maybe the team had been let off for something else that we didn't see and that resulted in them being given no leeway here. Perhaps. But no need to speculate on that when we DID see plenty of help being given in other rooms. The serpent's tongue for example. They were basically told what to do there. And the corridor with the moving wall, I feel like they were given extra time there.

So I am in two minds.

Part of me thinks it's really unfair that they are practically told what to do in serpeant's tongue room, yet expected to be psychic with the McGrew situation.
The other part of me thinks that a team shouldn't need their hand held all the way through the dungeon and perhaps they had used up all the help they were going to get.

[Pooka]

I believe it was unfair that the team should have known to dispell the DANCE spell on McGrew.

Instead of dancing around the room yelling unintelligible babble, why wasn't he grabbing hold of the dungeoneer, clealry begging for the spell to be lifted in exchange for help?

This is something that I agree with. It wasn't overly clear what they needed to do and McGrew was a relatively unknown quality at this point. At the very least he seemed aggressive, and that would have made him seem like more of a threat. If it had been me, I would've wanted to get away from him too.

I'm also of the opinion that the bagpipe music wasn't helping, as it made him much more indistinct! I could barely hear his pleas throughout the scene (also given the team's instructions) as it was far too loud!

[HStorm]

Am I imagining things? While in the Vale of Vanburn, does Grimwold hit himself in the unmentionables while wildly swinging his club around?

[PookasRule]

Very interesting discussion concerning Cliff and McGrew. I am in two minds about it myself. On the one hand, surely it wouldn't be unfair for Treguard to call out a vague hint such as "Remember the Adventurers' Code, team!" as Cliff is being edged towards the door. On the other hand, once a spell is cast the only way to undo it is to dis-spell it, so as soon as McGrew began his impromptu performance, Cliff was safe from any harm. McGrew's pleadings, to me at least, are also a tell-tale sign that he will genuinely help the team if he is shown mercy. If he was a truly aggressive and dangerous character, I imagine he would begin cursing and swearing revenge on the team once DANCE was cast.

[Canadanne]

It sounds more like "sullock/sulloch raider" to me, but I have no idea what that would mean...

Listening to this again, it sounds more like "I see by your blundering you have pulled a pertadonkle into this place", which still doesn't help! Maybe TC just made some words up?

I was re-listening to an interview with Jason Karl and he mentioned that his huge collection of Knightmare memorabilia includes scripts. I'd love to know if he has any Series 3 ones featuring Velda's incomprehensible lines!

[s4t8brett]

Yeah, that would be good to see. I'm guessing it was some kind of genuine Gaelic/Scottish though.

[Drassil]

I was re-listening to an interview with Jason Karl and he mentioned that his huge collection of Knightmare memorabilia includes scripts. I'd love to know if he has any Series 3 ones featuring Velda's incomprehensible lines!

This reminds of how generous Billy Hicks was in scanning the first Knightmare pilot script for Knightmare.com, sharing his good fortune and resourcefulness in acquiring a copy from the late Richard Bonehill who had performed in the pilot.

I for one would gladly make a donation to charity on Knightmare fans' behalf for the answers that Jason Karl's Knightmare script collection may hold. And what a wonderful addition that new information would make to Knightmare.com in this, its 25th anniversary year.

[Canadanne]

I was re-listening to an interview with Jason Karl and he mentioned that his huge collection of Knightmare memorabilia includes scripts. I'd love to know if he has any Series 3 ones featuring Velda's incomprehensible lines!

This reminds of how generous Billy Hicks was in scanning the first Knightmare pilot script for Knightmare.com, sharing his good fortune and resourcefulness in acquiring a copy from the late Richard Bonehill who had performed in the pilot.

I for one would gladly make a donation to charity on Knightmare fans' behalf for the answers that Jason Karl's Knightmare script collection may hold. And what a wonderful addition that new information would make to Knightmare.com in this, its 25th anniversary year.

Agreed!