Knightmare urban myths

[Drassil]

That did cross my mind, but personally I'm as certain as I can be that Dooreen was Samantha Perkins, because of the similarities in the voice and mouth that I mentioned.

While it's not clear why Erin Geraghty only appeared in the later Series 4 episodes, it may be because she wasn't available to appear in earlier episodes. That would rule her out of playing Dooreen, who could have been needed in any quest (and almost was in Quests 1 and 2).

[Drassil]

A post about the 'urban myths' in Watching Neighbours Twice a Day...: How ’90s TV (Almost) Prepared Me for Life by Josh Widdicombe, published in September.

Myth: 'It was actually quite a slow experience all round.'
Reality: Sometimes guiding and manoeuvring were slow. Other times, far from it (Corridor of Blades; hurry-ups like causeway timers and goblins).

Myth: A character might 'make [a team] choose between taking an extra life potion or poisoned apple'. Josh adds: 'It never felt like a particularly tough decision.'
Reality: Knightmare was, in Treguard's words, "no game of numerous lives". The closest thing I can think of to an extra life potion was the poison that Series 4 Quest 6 turned into a life force restorer with their OPPOSITE spell. The closest thing I can think of to a poisoned apple was Mildread's potentially poisoned pie in Series 2 Quest 10. I can't recall any character making such an obvious offer of a useful item versus a dangerous item, though Julius Scaramonger sometimes offered choices.

(Not Really A) Myth: 'Treguard ... often raised his voice to make it feel dramatic'.
Reality: It's a thing actors do.

Myth: Treguard 'would freeze the team on screen and say he would unfreeze them to carry on the adventure next week.'
Reality: I'm not aware of any explicit reference to "temporal disruption" being Treguard's doing - just that he would sometimes warn that it was imminent, as well as being unaffected by it.

(Not A) Myth: 'A rumour went round that a group of children from a neighbouring school had been on Knightmare and managed to complete the adventure (a rare achievement). I didn't see the episode so have no idea if this was true, but the main detail I remember from this gossip was that one of the children was named Dicken Hairs ... Perhaps this was just a myth in my school or perhaps it was the case'.
Reality: Except for the misspelling of Dickon Hares, completely true. This was Series 4 Quest 6 (1990). I include it because Josh has presented it as a possible myth, rather than taking the easy step of checking it. It's not clear why.

In response to this, someone tweeted Josh with the name of Dickon & co's school. In doing so, they presented another possible myth:

Myth: Dickon's team 'got to go on Big Breakfast and Motormouth, it was a big deal.'
Origin: @andyyyborn on Twitter
Reality: Neither of these things has ever been mentioned online before to my knowledge. There've been one or two memories on this forum of Motormouth having a Knightmare feature (search the forum for the word 'Motormouth' to find them). As for The Big Breakfast: it started in 1992, two years after Dickon's quest. If Dickon was on it, it may have been a coincidence. Or perhaps Andy was thinking of a different breakfast television programme. I would love there to be clips to confirm his memories.

[Drassil]

Thanks for bringing that to my attention - while Wikipedia is an open encyclopedia for all, I feel quite protective about the Knightmare article as it was me who turned it from a small "stub" article to the bigger one you see today in May of 2005. With assistance from Brollachan (photos) and Drassil (copyediting/factual corrections) of this forum, as well as Tim Child himself who helped me via email!

The reference to 'Helmet Castle Kids' was added to the article on January 24th 2020, by a user's only edit to the website. I'm fairly sure the show doesn't exist at all and it's just someone having a laugh, so as of today I've reverted their edit and removed the reference.

If you search on Twitter for "Helmet Castle Kids", you can find confessions from the culprit. He adds myth upon myth by claiming that he 'changed the name [from] Knightmare to HELMET CASTLE KIDS', whereas in fact he only misnamed the American remake.

Myth: The advisors in one team were shown the chromakey void without the dungeon room artwork and reacted as if this was deliberate.

Origin: A tweet by Russty_Russ in 2020 (and a further identical tweet by Russty_Russ in 2022). The tweet contains a clip of dungeoneer Maeve (Series 1 Team 2) entering the Level 1 clue room and being told she was "in a green room with a table on". Russty_Russ presents this clip, his 'fave moment', as the production crew having 'forgot[ten] to put the fancy computer effects on for the advisers that the tv viewers at home automatically see"'.

Here's an official ITV clip from the scene.

Reality: The scenario that Russty_Russ is positing would have involved a combined level of unawareness and incompetence on the part of production, post-production and advisers that is extremely implausible.

Even if the advisors had somehow been allowed to (unknowingly?) misinterpret the chromakey void as a dungeon room, Knightmare always used bluescreen and never greenscreen. That was pointed out to Russty_Russ in 2020 but didn't stop him sharing his myth a second time with his nearly 28,000 followers.

I can far more easily believe that the adviser, under pressure in the unusual and unfamiliar filming situation, simply said "green" when she meant to say "grey" (the colour of the walls).

[Drassil]

Myth: Some advisors deliberately sabotaged their own quests for amusement value.

Origin: Jamie Andrew's 2022 Knightmare article for Den of Geek:

'Sometimes all four kids had to wait around for an hour or so between 'rooms' while the production team re-dressed the set. Sometimes during these hiatuses a team would grow so bored and restless that upon resumption of their quest they'd intentionally kill the conquestant [sic] just for a laugh. This is why kids aren't allowed to vote or drive.'

Jamie has said on Twitter that he 'extrapolated [this] from an old Guardian interview with Hugo [Myatt] and Tim [Child].' That would be Ben Child's 2013 article for The Guardian in which Tim Child said:

'From the beginning, Knightmare was in crisis because production was terribly slow. The kids would be waiting an hour to film a scene that lasted a minute and a half. Inevitably, they lost enthusiasm and did silly things. Some teams would walk their dungeoneer off a precipice for no reason. Others would put a useless clue into their knapsack and later die in humiliating fashion because they did not have the right key to a particular door, or the right spell to dismiss a monster.'

Reality: There's no record anywhere of advisors deliberately killing off their dungeoneer. Unless any such accounts come to light, Tim's comment about contestants doing 'silly things' is best interpreted as referring to silly mistakes - "Simon, sidestep to your left" being the prime example - as opposed to purposely wrecking a highly sought-after TV experience which the team would have auditioned and travelled miles for.


Myth: The dungeoneer in the opening sequence of Knightmare Series 6-8 (and the 2013 YouTube Geek Week special, and later episodes of Spanish remake El Rescate Del Talismán) is the son of Knightmare creator Tim Child.

Origin: Illusion, creator and former admin of Knightmare.com:

2 questions that i have often wondered about
1.How did they attract dungeoneers for series 1?Later series could sell on the reputation of knightmare but this wasnt the case in 1987.
2.Who was the kid on series 6-8 opening credits and how was he recruited?

1. Dunno, maybe they asked schools like Fun House did.

2. I believe this was Tim Child's son.

Reality: So near yet so far. It was Tim Child's daughter. Source: Jennie Child herself, via a September 2022 LinkedIn post:

'I spent the summer holidays on set and even managed to become the dungeoneer in the starting credits at one point.'

How pleasing to still be getting new pieces of the Knightmare puzzle 35 years on.

(On reflection, you could argue that more than one person might have played the dungeoneer, but it does appear to be the same person throughout the sequence.)

Ben Child a.k.a. Tim's son played Garstang in the Geek Week episode.

[Mystara]

I was sure that I asked Tim who the dungeoneer was in the intro sequence at the convention and he replied with "just some model" or "just some actor" or something fairly dismissive.

Is it possible Jennie was referring to a teaser rather than the credit sequence itself?

I've just rewatched the opening sequence. I admit I had always thought it was a boy. But now I'm torn. There are some sequences where the gait and arm joint appears feminine. But there are others where it appears more masculine. The poor resolution of the sequence doesn't help.

Overall, I would still guess it's a boy. But I'm now less confident than I once was.

[Canadanne]

She could also mean the end credits of some Series 4 episodes, with the dungeoneer wandering around Framlingham Castle?

[Mystara]

Hm, yes indeed. Good point, Canadanne.

[HStorm]

Another possible "Chinese whisper" explaining the confusion is that Tim Child talks about the Dungeon Doom pilot from 1986 at https://www.knightmare.com/backstage/hi ... art-1.html. There he mentions his nephew was one of the team, and it might have been misremembered.

[Drassil]

No advisors, after being asked "Where am I?" simply ever answered with just "You're in a room" did they? They always elaborated, but seeing how much the four-word phrase gets quoted you'd think they didn't.

Often an advisor would say, "You're in a room with...". And plenty of advisors' descriptions put an adjective before "room". But there were very many occasions where the advisor would say "You're in a room." as a self-contained statement, pause and only then elaborate.

According to my observations, only 2 out of 69 teams never used "You're in a room" or a close, equally non-descriptive variation: Team 1 of Series 1 and Team 5 of Series 8. So it's far closer to reality than to myth.

Onto a couple of hair-related myths:

Myth: Gwendoline the Greenwarden had fake hair.

Origin: Louisa Mellor's 2016 list article for Den of Geek:

'Juliet Henry Massy brought another memorable character to life underneath Knightmare's much-used long, curly blonde wig.'

Reality: It was and is her real hair, on display in numerous photos and videos outside Knightmare. The author - a journalist who has written for national broadcasters and newspapers - surely can't have had a shred of evidence that it was a wig (let alone a wig used by other characters), so I question her grounds for presenting it as fact.

Fortunately Juliet seemed to see the funny side: 'How rude '

Myth: Hordriss the Confuser had some fake hair.

Origin: The book Scarred for Life Volume Two: Television in the 1980s:

'Most memorable of all was Clifford Norgate as Hordriss the Confuser, wearing the most outlandish hairdo ever seen on British television. A flowing, coiffured white barnet with flame-red highlights, held together by two tubes of hairspray, melding into his equally expansive and entirely fake Gandalf beard.'

Reality: It would seem that somehow, the author has muddled up Hordriss's beard (which was Clifford's real facial hair) and Merlin's beard (which was not John Woodnutt's real facial hair). However that mistake occurred, the higher standards of a book - it's something the reader pays for, after all - mean that it should have been caught and corrected during editing, never making it into print to undermine otherwise well-researched and entertaining work.

[Requiem]

MYTH: The Short Cut was invented at the last minute and pushed the last few teams through to Level 3.
TRUTH: I recall hearing somewhere that all teams in Series 8 were told of a potential shortcut (although that may be a urban myth too - clarify, Alan?) before play. In any case, it wasn't "the last few teams" - only Dunstan and Oliver actually used it, and they were both forced.

Ye have summoned me!

From memory (I really have to see if I can dig all this out, it'd probably be of interest to people), our adventurer's code that we received at the beginning of filming told us about a rumoured shortcut. I would assume that all teams were given the same sheet of paper containing the same information.

I should also clarify the term "forced". It was implied, if not outright stated, that we had to take the shortcut or "run for fun", i.e. have no chance of winning. However, we were asked whether we wanted to take the shortcut or not, before the relevant room appeared.

It could be that previous teams had a more realistic choice, but elected not to take the shortcut. For us, it was a no-brainer.

The printed rules/advice slip we received ahead of travelling to Norwich 100% included that a shortcut was rumoured to feature in the dungeon. I can't, sadly, lay my hands on the document (honestly, one of these days, I swear I'm going to empty my parents' attic in military fashion) but I am certain the document references a 'rumour' about the shortcut. I nearly think it mentioned that it would be heavily guarded, but I'm less certain about that aspect.

As for the shortcut itself and the question of whether or not to take it – it made total sense for your team, and therefore made even more sense for mine.

As I've said elsewhere before, at the time of filming, nobody could be certain whether or not my team would have enough time to finish the dungeon. This goes for us as much as the production team. I think, by the time we were mid-filming, the production team was able to make a bit more of an educated guess (that there wasn't going to be enough time), but when we were on standby for Dunston et al to finish, obviously nobody knew.

I do remember Tim asking my team and I in the Green Room if we wanted to take the shortcut or not. At the time, I wasn't concerned with filming schedules, or studio times and budgets. When we were told that getting the shortcut would involve the Corridor of Blades, that was all the information I needed to say yes. I had been clear with my team from the moment we first auditioned that if we got on the show, I really hoped we'd get to experience the Corridor of Blades. The shortcut guaranteed us a go at that trap room, so that's what we did.

[KaM]

MYTH: Dawn Airey is primarily responsible for the end of Knightmare.

On the 30th anniversary of the final episode, it seems fitting to touch upon this briefly.

I was among those who strongly believed this, as did several Knightmare-based housemates.

That was partly because she is the first name introduced in Tim Child's History of Knightmare, Part 3 (as it is now); partly because she was an instrument of change (a 'reformer', in today's terms); and partly because her career trajectory has always seemed quite ruthless.

That was to last until the Knightmare Convention in 2014. I haven't spoken about this much before, but I did speak with Tim about Dawn Airey during the set-up on Friday afternoon. I cannot remember all of it verbatim, except for his delight in repeating that trio of 'f' words that she became (in)famous for around Channel 5.

But it did strike me quite profoundly just how much of a fan of hers he was – far too much so for somebody that had supposedly deposed the jewel in Broadsword's crown. The data-led approach, of course, was hers. She was in her early 30s (which seems crazy for the role she had) and trying to make strides in a technologically shifting era.

From what I remember, Tim believed Dawn Airey would have kept Knightmare as long as the data proved an appetite for it (which Series 8 absolutely did, versus Virtually Impossible). If anything, she had generated a clearer argument for keeping it, because a crystal clear A/B experiment in that timeslot hadn't worked out. The data in 1994 had bucked the trend.

The reality was more down to the powerplay that took place following Dawn's departure, and other complications. Tim is careful not to apportion blame, and the circumstances are generously explained in the 'history'.

There is, of course, a counter-argument that somebody who experimented with reducing/replacing Knightmare and then left before acting upon any conclusions of that experiment has some culpability for what follows. Fair enough.

But you might find yourself absorbing Tim's testimony slightly differently if you remove Dawn Airey in your mind as the primary villain of the piece. I did.

[Canadanne]

"Dickon's got the horn, master!" seems to be very famous for something that never ended up in the finished episode, too (it originates from a 2002 David Learner interview and presumably got cut before transmission).

I wonder if David Learner himself has slightly misremembered this incident. He claims to have said it when they picked up the goblin-deafening horn in the Oakley scene, but this has always struck me as rather unlikely (it's not like Pickle was in the habit of redundantly observing what clue objects had just been chosen), and I also doubt he would have said it when they needed to use the horn, as it would've been too heavy a hint. Perhaps he actually said it when they completed their quest - Pickle does exclaim "He's done it, master - Dickon has the crown!" and a goblin horn sounds as he picks it up, which is weirdly never mentioned by anyone. This might have caused David to accidentally say "horn" instead of "crown", which would be easy enough to re-film. (It's possible there was supposed to be some additional dialogue about rescuing Dickon before the goblins arrived, which ended up being forgotten or cut.)