1-4 or 5-8
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Hey all. Thanks for the contributions to the thread, much appreciated and enjoyed.
Well the score now is 5-3 in favour of the earlier series, and one person undecided. I think I'll call that a result unless somone votes in the next 24 hrs.
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i would go for the 5-8 series simply because of lord fear plus the tence music and the heartbeating made it even more suspenceful for example on series 6 team 4's death jeez that music and the heartbeat made it a classic death also that skull made a welcome return
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So its now 5-4 and one undecided in favour of the earlier series. Voting extended.
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The people who actually read my blabbering on this forum will probably expect me to say 1-4. Most of my tongue lashings are usually saved for the later series, and I've never found much wrong with Series 3.
But I'm really not very sure (and am hoping by the end of this post I make up my mind). In some ways, I'd like to not answer the question or daintily sidestep to my left around it. I wouldn't really put want to put Series 4 in with the first three, since it seemed to mark something of a transition. Also, Series 8 doesn't completely fit with the three before it in style.
There are definitely things I don't like about the later series. A lot of it is too linear, too based on success on certain obstacles, too obvious, too defined with respect to good v. evil, for my liking. I think a lot of the mystery of the early series was gone. I rather like the fact that we didn't know what Mogdred's motives were, whereas with Lord Fear things became a little obvious and predictable (admittedly, especially when you're no longer watching it as a 13 year old). I also thought some of the storylines in the later series were a bit lazy, although I suppose one could say "at least there were storylines". It became far too easy to get to Level 3, in my humble opinion. Hmmm, this getting rather long already, so I'll keep my other criticisms of the later series short. Eye shield. Reach wand. Ridolfo. Lack of good wall monsters. Brother Strange. Ridolfo. Too many spyglasses. Ridolfo.
Having said all that, the early series weren't perfect, and the later series has much to commend them. The graphics were better, I much preferred the later titles and theme music, and the backing music during some of the tenser moments was fantastic. Most of the puzzles themselves in the later series were gorgeous. A lot of people mention the sentimental value of the early series, but for me most of any sentimentality is centred on the latter ones, since those are the ones I firmly remember watching the first time around. I think the later series had the best complete set of characters too, especially on the Opposition side. I do think that the humour was occasionally pushed too far, but I still enjoy watching Sly and Lissard a great deal.
As I mentioned before, despite having some fantastic elements and setting up the programme in all its glory, the early series had some aspects I didn't like. Some are specific to specific series, and some of my criticisms of the later series hit Series 4 too. Hmm, enable criticism short mode again. Often slow paced. Sometimes more of a story would be nice. Supermad Treguard. Velda. Merlin taking about two minutes to cast a spell. Velda. Oh, throw in Velda and her overacting again for good measure.
I suppose we could go on forever on this type of topic. I haven't even mentioned either of the characters who make up my username here, for example. Although it's a tough decision, I'll go for 5-8 since I like doing what people don't expect.
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Hey Grimaldine thanks for the well explained views. I must say though your reply actualy led me to remeber more reasons why I preffered 1-4 to 5-8. You mention a couple of faults with series 5-8 that time had previously allowed me to forget.
Oh elloello dont start me on market or kitchens lol. Come on I mean this was Knightmare not Knightshopper. In Knightshopper teams go home with dodgy cloths due to being blindfolded. In short probably my least favorite charecter resided in the market and two of my favorites resided in Kitchens, well 3 if you count Festus.
Kitchens r us take me to MFI
Scores on the doors 6-5 in favour of the later series ( shock horror )
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I preferred Series 5-7, although I'd place Series 4 in with them 'cause it had outdoor environments. Series 3 was the first one I saw and then it changed a year later, so I didn't get a chance to get used to the indoor rooms. I did like S3, but I think the later seasons are better because of the storylines, rooms and the outdoor footage! The new characters were excellent too - Lord Fear, Sly Hands, Sidriss, Smirkenorff etc. I was disappointed when it went back to completely indoor environments in S8 (which wasn't a favourite season of mine for this reason).
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Thanks for the vote Velda I'll log that at the end. Im affraid as Knightmare viewers were opposites, I'll take indoors over outdoors, Mogdred or Malice over Lord fear and early series charecters over the later.
BRING BACK MILDREAD
So updated 7-5 in favour of series 5-8
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I don't know if this is too late, but I'd like to add my vote in favour of the 1-4 series- the indoor environments are better generally, and there was more room variety.
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Of course its not too late to vote, in fact Im gonna leave the thread open indefinatly so if your reading this 2 years from the post date and Im no longer around feel free tosend an old man a mail and remind him what he's missing
Score = 7-6 in favour of series 5-8
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No contest 5-8 (S4 as well because it was the first I ever Saw.)
I think Knightmare began to realy hit it's stried with S5 (even though it itself was not the best)
Lord Fear is in my mind the most memorable Opposition leader.
I like his hoppless minions Sly Hands, Julias Scaramounger, Bahl-Sheba,Lissard & The Bollracan.
And of corse my favirote of all time Skarkil
"LOVLEY"
Wall Monsters would have been good addition to the latter series though.
Also the three question thing was used in series 8 by The Fool Taker Snapper-Jack to dissern wether or not the Dungeoneer was a fool or not.
On the Subject of Mogdred I never found him as memroable (even now after watching sereies 3-4 againe) as Lord Fear.
I also prefer the Knightly Treagurd to the scarry one. I also wish they had carried the characters of Mrs. Grimwold & Fatila The Hun Forward as I think they would have been good additions to the later series.
There is one thing that is a big negetive about the later series namley 7-8 MADIJER.
Urrgeh. Don't get me wrong I'm sure given another sereis she would have evolved better like Pikle did after series 4. But as it was she never relly found her nitch in Knightmare.
So all in all I will still have to vote for the later series.
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Hey Grimaldine thanks for the well explained views. I must say though your reply actualy led me to remeber more reasons why I preffered 1-4 to 5-8. You mention a couple of faults with series 5-8 that time had previously allowed me to forget.
Yes, that's true, looking back at what I wrote- I do seem to give more reasons to prefer 1-4. It's actually quite hard to compare "1-4" with "5-8" since there are so many differences within those sets of series. Although it doesn't completely solve the problem, I'd be tempted to divide it up into 1-3 ("Early"), 4-5 ("Transitional") and 6-8 ("Late"). There's still a lot of differences within each set, but personally I'd rank the "Transitional" phase below both the others.
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All in all, i prefer the early series. The reason is simple:
The early format for Knightmare was like a Televised Computer Boardgame, almost like HeroQuest (if anyone remembers that) and the airbrushed scenes looked very much like cardboard rooms. I liked the way the dungeoneer would walk through a door, and as far as we knew, the next room could be anything. The later series - 5 in particular - are WAY too linear.
I first started watching KM when S4 started, but i remember catching a bit of S3. Even aged 6ish, I thought that the older KM i had only briefly seen was way better and far more scary.
Later on, many of the "hated" features of the new format began to work well, S6 in particular as it was tension filled and really gripping.
I dislike S5 as the outside locations are too "normal" (i thought the previous purpleness was cool as it reassured us that this was a different reality/time/place. Also S5 really over used the eyeshield, in S4 and the later series it seemed to be used sparingly, when a player leaves a room. In S5 entire scenes are through the shield
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I will have to say 1-4 even tho originally i dont remember much of it as I was only about 4 when S4 aired first time.
Firstly the life force, the best by far heartbeat and real panic is set in by it. Secondly Mogdred and Malice etc great villians with a mysterious evil element. Merlin's chamber was good as well and the old crackpot always made me laugh. The fact that S1 and S3 were unbeaten leaves a certain element of mystery to it. In S3 and 4 then i thought Treguard was really good and came into the Knightly element of being the Dungeon Master.
5-8 werent bad by any stretch, perhaps a little bland and too many outside elements and o lord the Eye Shield is really overused in S5 at the least. CoB is a good part but that was also in S4. Lord Fear and Skarkill are good but the opposition and powers that be element really makes it too obvious, I mean in S3 then their were so many "wild card" characters. Also The skeleton figure and the quiche are a joke when compared to original life force sequence and CoB as a shortcut is laughable and unfair.
So to sum up then 1-4 were far superior in my opinion and i hope that it wins and that you enjoyed my insanely long post.
(p.s: congrats to Grimaldine Grimwold for achieving 1500 posts !)
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Very close to call I reckon. 1-4 had Mogdred, more difficult quests (3 out of 39 champions compared to 5 out of 30 in the latter series) and a lot more sinister backgrounds - but 5-8 had Lord Fear, Smirkenorff, and as the series progressed the entire thing felt a lot easier on the eye in my opinion.
I am voting for 1-4 in light of this because series 8 is a bit of a disappointment and even though there are some very good quests in 6-7, the earlier series give a good indication of Knightmare as it should really be.
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Hang on a sec...
late voter...
But it really is exceedingly difficult to decide...S1-4 had just Treguard (and a more neutral one at that, no being on the side of the powers that be here...)... people had to be really careful through many rooms or fall to their doom..the old life force clock was just a bit (and only a bit) better than the walking knight..
But some of the graphics were poor (eek! A bat! A scorpion! ;D), you really felt a bit bored when a failed quest in level 3 was followed by a hopeless team who stumble their way through the wall guardians (I preferred the scrolls, apart from when a team dithered over them as long as it would have taken to answer 3 questions >:().
Also, many of the characters were rather scary looking. And not in a good way. S4 was woefully linear too. And those %^^"$%** weeping doors! Pickle was poor in S4 too, except on 2 occasions; when he entered the game and the placement of a banana in the knapsack (for all the good it would have done).
S5-8, on the other hand...spyglasses were fun, Smirkenhoff's rides were good (better than a S3 dwarf tunnel) and S8's Eye shield sequences finally looked very good (S4-7 were poor, I know). Graphics looked really groovy in S7-8, the challenges such as the moving platforms, the trial by spikes (and the obvious ones etc.) and wave upon wave of fireballs. Lord Fear and his minions were all great, too. And I include the blockers in that.
But...The Eye shield sequences grated, the villages were too tame (you knew they wouldn't be endangered there), the floating skulls had lost their evil ways (except they did that in S4) (except they did once in S5) and Majida (or whoever) in S7-8 was poor. Treguard also had terible attire in s7-8 (like s1-2, perhaps).
Also, of course, the quests were longer, which meant fewer teams per series, which meant fewer deaths. I'm guessing they wanted to put a more equal Powers That be Vs. The Opposition score (I think the best was still a thrashed 2-5, but better than 11-0 of S3 (last team doesn't count)), but couldn't make it too easy. But they tried...level 1 of S5 Team 1 was so simple.
So, although the paragraphs of negatives outnumber the positives (by 4 to 2), I still loved Knightmare, and S5-8 juuuuuuussst clinch it. But only due to Lord Fear and being able to warm to him. Mogdred just looked like he'd stuck his head in a bowl of Vaseline and then tried to do a Brother Mace impression. Sorry, my opinion.
Also, the characters had much more charm in later series than the early ones...Motley beat Folly (although Folly was more a 'jester' proper), Brother mace beat...erm, someone...Hordriss just beat Merlin (only because Hordriss popped up in different places and generally knew better than to lock himself in the stocks ;))
Good heavens, I've typed too much.
Thanks for reading this far.
My vote was s5-8, by the way, in case you didn't catch it.
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