Series 5
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--- POSSIBLE SPOILERS OF SERIES 5 EPISODES NOT YET SHOWN ON CHALLENGE WITHIN THIS THREAD ---
Now we're a fair way into Series 5 on Challenge, I thought it'd be a decent time to start asking people what you think of the series as a whole. How do you think it compares to other series you've seen? Feel free to reserve judgement until the end of the series if you wish, or give views as we go along.
Personally, I guess this series fits nicely with Series 4 as Knightmare's main transition. Series 4 overhauled a lot of things, especially gameplay aspects- the Eye Shield, the introduction of "proper" floor puzzles, if you like, rather than ledges to avoid falling off. Series 5 seems to continue and enhance that- Smirkenorff's flights adding to the passive paths. The main change, I guess, is in the characters. There are so many new characters in Series 5, and many of them will be present until the end of Knightmare and form the core of the cast of characters over the following series.
Personally, I like Series 5 for what it heralds for the future. The new characters especially are good, although a few need a year to really bed in- especially Sylvester Hands, who in my view wasn't up to much in Series 5, and whose voice sometimes sounded just like Paul Valentine's voice for Motley! Rayner Bourton is a great addition, and seems to hit all the right notes.
The causeways are a great idea and look fantastic, although they are kinda slow this year.
Sadly I don't think the good elements are enough to make this rank as one of my favourite series. I get bored very quickly with the passive paths, many of the castle ruin locations are awfully bland, and similarly the woodland scenes are often a bit icky.
Oh, and I'm getting tired of Pickle.
Right, that's my thoughts off the top of my head. If anyone has any general comments on the series now or as we see it progress, feel free to contribute your opinions.
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not bad overall.
fair better then s4, not by fair not the best.
Do like the characters, and indeed the quest paths are different than the last one.
just needs alittle more danger, not lot u can do with the outside sections but i believe they are a bit over used..
can't remember if they go out side in level 3.. i hope not.. i love a dark and hard level 3. and i kinda believe that outside sections should only be level one and early level 2.. i can't remember how much we had of them..
But Fear does become fair more evil as the seasons progress.. at the moment his a bit flat. But because each quest isnt based around the same thing like season 4 its makes it fair more easy to watch.. can could be watched all that more longer.. Season 4 once or twice is enough really.
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My general opinion of Series 5? So... bloody... SLOW!!! It's the only series I've got that I find myself fast-forwarding through, the clue-room scenes just drag on and on, so do the causeways. I really miss the wall monsters in the clue rooms too. It also doesn't seem quite so dangerous as earlier series like 2 and 3, maybe because there's the outdoor sequences.
The focus seems to have shifted to interaction with the NPCs characters, while in earlier series it was more "This is the Block and Tackle. Try not to die." If they'd still had the Bomb Rooms from Series 1-3, I think just about every team would have died. "You are in a room. There is a bomb. The fuse is lit. The fuse is burning. It's still burning. It's getting pretty short now, maybe you should move..." BOOM) Character interaction is nice and all, but after watching Series 2 and 3, Series 5 just bores me. Except fir the Corridor of Blades of course. Nobody could find THAT boring! The causeways are somewhat disappointing, since without the timer there's not really much sense of immediate danger or urgency.
However, the cast of characters is a big improvement. On a whole, they're much more interesting than those of earlier series, especially as far as the Opposition is concerned. Sly Hands and Scarkill are fab, Lord Fear is a bit wooden instead of the snarky b*stard of later series, but I still prefer him to Mogdred. I also like the introduction of Smikernorff, though he's MUCH better with a voice, without it the flight sequences seem to drag a bit.
Oh, and I'm getting tired of Pickle.
You and me both.
Anyway, despite Lord Fear, Smirkenorrf and (of course) Elita, I think Series 5 is my least favourite series. Too much pissing about, indecision and not enough of a sense of IMPENDING DOOM!!! Bring back the wall monsters! Or, better yet, put the later characters in the earlier dungeons. That would rock...
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can't remember if they go out side in level 3
Winteria?
(more spoiler space even though GG has a spoiler warning at the very top anyway)
With only two teams getting to level 3 this series, and it being a completely different style of level 3 each time, it's difficult to really get a sense of there being "a" level 3. Would've been interesting to see if there were just the two scenarios that alternated...
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Whilst I agree that series 5 is slow and there are things from earlier series that I miss, there is an awful lot of innovation in this series. The Opposition was completely changed and a lot of characters introduced - some of which would stay until the very end. The only other series to do that was series 3; a series that many of us believe to be the best of the lot.
I think it's only because of the subsequent series that we believe that series 5 is not that brilliant. Get rid of series 6-8, though, and series 5 seems a lot better.
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Y'know I'll be honest, I don't actually like Lord Fear that much, he's alright I guess, but I don't get that same scary impact I did with Mogdred.
Gah, Elita reminded me of the lack of Wall Monsters sniff I loved Wall Monsters back in the earlier series, and it allowed the Dungeoneers and Advisors to actually USE their knowledge.
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The focus seems to have shifted to interaction with the NPCs characters, while in earlier series it was more "This is the Block and Tackle. Try not to die." If they'd still had the Bomb Rooms from Series 1-3, I think just about every team would have died. "You are in a room. There is a bomb. The fuse is lit. The fuse is burning. It's still burning. It's getting pretty short now, maybe you should move..." BOOM) Character interaction is nice and all, but after watching Series 2 and 3, Series 5 just bores me. Except fir the Corridor of Blades of course. Nobody could find THAT boring! The causeways are somewhat disappointing, since without the timer there's not really much sense of immediate danger or urgency.
Hehe... far too true about the "Bomb Room" suggestion! It does seem that the teams like to stroll their way through the puzzles... perhaps that's why so many die on puzzles that need agility and quick thinking like the CoB, B&T and Causeways - they're able to take things more laid back as a whole throughout the dungeon, so when the quick wits are needed the teams aren't ready (if they'd ever be!). Flipside to earlier seasons, and you find dungeoneers nigh on sprinting their way through some areas (or at least sprinting as fast as you would blindfolded!).
Season 5 is one I've wanted to watch in particular, seeing as I missed a lot of it by having swimming lessons after school on Fridays (though I'd end up catching at least the last 10 minutes or so, which wasn't too bad). However, I can't help but feel I wasn't missing much. A lot of the areas aren't up to much (woodland areas not too bad, but can't say I like the village areas). And groovy as Smirky may be in later seasons, I can't help but feel that he's another extension to the eye shield's nature of "filling up quality questing time with yet another prefilmed sequence". If I wanted to see all this nice scenery so much, I'd whip out my British Heritage membership and head up for Leeds Castle myself!
Just a word to all you people who don't like Pickle - I can see where you're getting at, but I'd rather have him than Little Miss "Oooh, I hate zis game"!
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i never was a big fan of te flights but i quite like them now lol.
The problem is you seem to want action. rarther than the whole feel of the knightmare experience within each quest. I don't S5 better than 4. but still a little flat. not as dark as it should be. Wall monsters where always one of the best (s3) s4 doors was the most annoying things.. and these blockers a nice and short...
Talking of s5 level 3... this past episode.. did we see the team take stairs UP?? ummm what happend about going deeper down
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The producers were forced to put in stuff like Eye Shield to get quests to progress quicker but I find that completely untrue. If anything they are slow and tedious and the eye shield brings nothing to the game.
Yup, it just seems to be an excuse to use lots of pre-recorded sequences. (with weird colours) Sometimes I wish they'd just kept thinks inside the dungeon like in Series 1-3. Then again, they wouldn't have been able to use Wolfenden or the tavern.
Gah, Elita reminded me of the lack of Wall Monsters sniff I loved Wall Monsters back in the earlier series, and it allowed the Dungeoneers and Advisors to actually USE their knowledge.
Yeah, I miss them too. I liked the way the help they gave you was measured by amount of correct answers, instead of the way it works in Series 4-5. (the amount of right answers doesn't seem to matter as long as you get one right)
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Also with it being so easier and more pre-filmed, even lousy teams quests can take over 30minutes because of the Smirky flight, eye shield and lack of urgency. I mean they let off team 3 on the arrow mistake despite a REALLY obvious clue from Treguard. I lot of the time I got the impression that some teams in this series would die on Level 1 in S3
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have you noticed before the eye shield screen comes up and the team are thinking about going towards a different door towards been recored.. pickle tends to point out the 'other excit' kinda off if they advise him to walk of the stairs and the eye shield shows them going into a hidden door lol
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Having completed a run thru series 5, i thought i would consider some general points.
Before series 5 was originally broadcast, way back in 1991, i had hoped that the eye-shield would have been dropped after S4 as an idea that didn't really work, but sadly there it still was....
In S5 with further sweeping changes, the last links to the original program had all-but gone. Treguard still remained, of course, but even his character seemed to have modified to an extent.
The biggest change was the introduction of a new arch-villain and sadly i felt that it didn't work at all. The earlier antagonists Mogdred, Morghanna (and even maybe Malice) had an arthurian-legend feel which seemed to fit in with the original concept so nicely. Lord Fear was more like a creation from a cheap pantomime. This is no criticism of the acting of Mark Knight, who gave it plenty of enthusiam, but i felt that the character was simply wrong from the start.
This seemed to be the general trend of S5. Between series 2,3 & 4 there had been changes to the cast and some great characters departed, but each time the producers created wonderful replacements. In S5 however, many of the new characters simply fell flat.
Sir Hugh didn't really seem to have much point.
Pixel quickly became samey and fortunately didn't appear later on in the series.
Aesandre was rather bland and didn't have anywhere near as much menace and impact as Malice, let alone Morghanna.
The most tedious of the new characters was Skarkill, a totally cardboard character.
Rayner Bourton did far better with his portrayal of the shifty Scaramonger. His improvised patter had some great lines, even more so considering he had to deal with several rather passive dungeoneers. Sly Hands got better as the series progressed.
For me the pick of the new characters was Elita, the stroppy cavern-elf who needed handling with tact. She combined the fiery character of Lady Velda with the abusiveness of Cedric and really gave dungeoneers some serious attitude, not all of which was undeserved. Stephanie Hesp really seemed to get into this character.
Thankfully there were some familiar faces. Motley was back in good form, Brother Mace returned in style and Hordriss was even more grand and pompous than ever.
The look of the series changed as well. Sadly the corridor of blades seldom appeared and seemed to be used simply to terminate teams who had fallen into losing status.
The causeways were a nice addition and really tested teams directional movement.
The spy-glass scenes in the "clue-rooms" (clue-areas?) seemed to provide clues easily and were less challenging than the traditional three-questions scenario.
The pace of the program, which had dropped-off in S4, seemed to get even slower. The eye-shield sequences were getting excessively long, to the point of being shameless padding. The dragon sequences looked great, but slowed down the game even further....
The array of teams was good tho. A couple of teams were very competent and some of the other teams were very entertaining.
In the '90s, i slowly lost interest in Knightmare from S5 onwards. At the time i assumed that i had simply outgrown the program (i was 17 when S5 arrived) but looking back it seems that from S5 there was a clear shift by the producers to aim the program at a younger audience. (Consider the introduction of Lord Fear in particular.) This could explain the fact that in middle-age i still really like S1-3 (and to a point S4) but find the later series disappointing.
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