Series 8, Episode 10
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Indeed. A solemn occasion.
Do you think Knightmare should have ended with a death, or a win? I'm all for a death I'm afraid. A really grisly one, a final Oooh Nasty to mark the show as one of the toughest around.
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We get to see a winning quest today! In my opinion though, I think the winning quest could have been drawn out to fill the final episode - therefore ending the series on a big win! As it is, they started a new quest and it got cut short before they could get through level 3.
Interesting to see the team use the Reach wand as a remote key! Did you notice the dungeoneer waving it about - whoever moved the cursor must have had to listen to the team's instructions, and carefully watch what the dungeoneer did with the wand!
The Paladin spell was interesting - Dunstan turned into a warrior, and all of LF's fireballs just hit his shield without affecting him.
After rescuing Hordriss, they escaped through a sewer tunnel. Hordriss must have been getting messages in an earpiece to tell him when to lean left and right as the platform moved. Dunstan didn't move at all
Now, the winning teams pictures are immortalised in a Hall of Fame, though I assume they also get their certificates with the FrightKnight trophies.
Notice with the new team how they almost took the key, and Treguard kept telling them to think of what the scroll said! Why didn't he just say "Take the book and the rod"?
Next, Motley being flown around in the air by Sidriss's magic! After giving Sidriss the book, Motley came down and Sidriss gave them a spell of dragon-charming! They used the charm on Smirkenoff to persuade him to give them a spell to slow down the Corridor of Blades (after LF speeded it up). Quite amusing to see the charm take effect and then wear off!
They used the stick to reveal a doorway to the CoB in the trapdoor room. Same technique as using the Reach wand, with a different cursor.
Did you notice, in the Corridor of Blades, they didn't bother spellcasting the BURST spell - or even activating it in any way! Still, the blades were slowed down to normal speed...
In the spy-glass scene, we learn that Lissard puts a fake shield in the quest chamber. However, a fireball came up to the spy-glass just as critical information was being given, and they had to put it down before Lissard said which shield was the real one!
"Which is the real one, the one on the left or the right?" "The real one is the one..." put it down
Sadly they never managed to get up to the quest chamber, as the Bells of Marblehead signalled the end of the season in the very next chamber! Notice that when they pick up the food, you hear the sound effect that indicates the life force was restored - but no pie in the corner of the screen!
And finally, we see Smirkenoff in flight to rescue the dungeoneer! Real nice CGI background for Smirkenoff's flight during the episode and over the end credits! Shame it was never used in a quest.
Classic lines in the spy-glass scenes
Lissard: "It will engulf anyone who touches it in a fireballness!"
Lord Fear: "A fireball...ness?"
Lord Fear: "I'm thinking of calling it Virtual Reality ... if you make something new, give it a really impressive name!"
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Well for the last team I couldn't help feeling that level 1 was shorter than usual, or at least fewer rooms.
Notice that the shield in the final quest is a different one to that on s7. Also did anyone spot the extra hand at the start of the final teams' quest that appeared from the dungeon.
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As the Challenge announcer said, this really was 'the end of an era'. Many years ago this entire episode was available to download via Knightmare.com, but this was before the age of broadband, so it took ages to download, and was affecting webspace. Still, Dunstan's team triumphed in the end, giving Series 8 at least one winning quest. Oliver's team did fairly well, it was a bit silly them taking the stick and key at the start, but Advisor Anthony was responsible for some AMAZING directions in the Corridor of Blades. None of this "Ok, go left- NO, LEFT! RIGHT! RIGHT! RIGHT! STOP! NO! LEFT!" stuff, but simple clear instructions- "Left. Duck. Right. Stay there. Left. Right. Duck. Walk forward. Sidestep left" and so on. I wonder if Lord Fear's dig at Virtual Reality was a sly nod to Virtually Impossible, the show that replaced Knightmare's time slot for the rest of the year? It seems that the team may have picked the wrong shield if there had been an episode 11, as they put the spyglass down before Lissard revealed the right one- "The correct shield is the one on...". Still, it's a shame that the team were literally stopped in their tracks, although Lord Fear's end line was a great one to end 8 years of Knightmare. I notice the hall of fame at the end also contained Julie and Barry's team, with an empty frame at the end, indicating that some day, Knightmare may return. And it will!
On Monday, Challenge does a Sam Beckett and leaps back 8 years to the first episode of Knightmare. I can't wait!
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I liked it but i wish that the final team would have moved faster through all the rooms. if they did then i think they could have made it. Ah well. I agree with the great directions in the corridor of blades. I think if this team was on from the start they might have won but time always wins(grrr it).
I miss knightmare already and its only been an hour:(
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Good to see another team win, they could have had a longer final encounter. Dunstan didn't really have to do anything apart from uncorking the bottle- which they had been dying to do for the past 15 minutes!
Even though dungeoneers never seem to listen to their advisors, they step up there gameplan when Hordriss is shouting the commands!
I would have though that they would have more Treguard/Majida dialogue in light of the victory, it seemed to be a little bitty with not much excitement.
Not sure if they should have used the shortcut again. Maybe a shorter but complete quest just to make up the time, not retriving the shield or whatever but to "free the maid" or "to save the dungeon" or something in a different environment from the levels.
We've found out what they do during the breaks now: go on holiday! Somewere sunny for Lord Fear and somewhere damp for Lissard.
The season didn't end in a particularly exciting way, shame that Knightmare didn't go out with a bang (or a crash as has been usual)
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Even though Series 8 didn't end with something that we would like but remember if the graphics wern't pushed as far as they could go in Series 8 then Knightmare VR might not be in develpoment but we would have Series 7 type graphics for Series 8.
So in my opinion, Series 8 Graphics wise has paved the way to KMVR.
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I liked it but i wish that the final team would have moved faster through all the rooms. if they did then i think they could have made it. Ah well. I agree with the great directions in the corridor of blades. I think if this team was on from the start they might have won but time always wins(grrr it).
There is no way the last team could have won even if they did hurry up as there simply would not have been enough time, Even if they had a dedicated full episode, I'm sure they still would not have reached the end even with the short cut. Dunstan's win was streched out over 1 full episode and 2 half episodes dont forget
I miss knightmare already and its only been an hour:(
Me too, but not too long to wait until we see Series 1 again, I really cant wait for this. Sadly I never recorded any series of Knightmare when it was on CITV, and I never had Sfi Fi when it was repeated on there so on Monday, I will finally be seeing Knightmare series 1 again for the first time in nearly 17 years, Its truely going to be an exciting moment(For me anyway)
Anyway back to the episode in Question. It was a good last show, but it never really ended on an exciting note.
Dunstan's quest was a good one, but he never really had any hard puzzles to do apart from the COB which he did nearly die in when watched again, but he does clearly survive, Still good guiding by the advisors all around made it a good win
Also noticed for the last team, they tryed to speed it up a little to give the team a small chance on winning, but obviously it was too big a task to win, like when he started, he went straight into the clue room, and Level 1 Seemed incredibly Short.
Also the Burst spell was obviously self activating as when Oliver went in, the Blades were down to the normal speed, Some Brilliant Guiding by the advisors here incidently and I loved how Oliver never paniced here either like most people have done.
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Those of you suggesting ways that they should have ended the series since it was the last one have to remember that they didn't know and realise that it was the last series at the time. There was suggestions that it wasn't going to be the last series and also when they episode was broadcast on CITV originally, at the end they were advertising for contestants for series 9. Also at the end Treguard send Smirkenorff to rescue Oliver. We only catch when he begins his flight. We don't see if Smirkenorff gets there in time nor if anything happens to the dungeon. Also rmember that Lord Fear was going "somewhere hot" and Lissard was going "somewhere damp". For all we know is that they might've not come back again. Maybe there was no Portall for them to get back.
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^They did know it was the end.
A poor win... missed out level 2, and no real puzzles..
Well we may not have had a Red dragon or Troll to fight off at the end.. but you have to look at it another way... This was the Episode Lord fear could have won a WHOLE SEASON. They HAD to win. and I'm sure if the 1st team didn't they would have made time for the 2nd one way or another.... so to be far it wasn't a bad last episode..very close, Also liked the idea of not having a 'big finish' for two reasons.. 1. we had it past 2 seasons, and 2nd..it was the last ep ever. Not alot you could have done with the last team, and the team before had to win, and i doubt they wanted to repeat season 7..
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No, at the time they didn't know. That's why after that episode they advertised for contestants for a possible series 9 (see the KM.com website- it wasn't, of course, transmitted on Challenge as it would get some people's hopes up).
Notice also that the last eyeshield sequence turned red. No fireball ths time. Good. They were just a bit overused.
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I wish for the fnal team of series 8 that they would have given them a full level 1 then a skip to half way through level 3 by giving them the swinging axe room on the series 4 episode 1 cedits. that would have been a better shortcut and made it much more challenging and if they'd made it throught it then they would have been worthy to skip to near the end of level 3. now that would have been cool
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I don't think they expected the winning team to be quite so fast...otherwise they probably wouldn't have bothered with the shortcut, and they could have ended on the winning quest instead of having to bring a new team in who had no chance of winning, even with a shortcut. Still, even so, I thought they could have filled up the remaining time with some banter from Treguard, Majida and Lord Fear, especially since it was the last episode, and really gone out with a bang, instead of bringing in a new team for a few minutes. Still, maybe there was just to much time to fill up without a team...It feels very weird to have seen the last episode of KM! But I was too young to see the first few seasons when they came around the first time, so this will be my first ever viewing of season one, and I'm looking forward to it!
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The last episode.
I remember that day almost 11 years ago. Of course I knew it was the last in the series, but I didn't know it would be the LAST series.
I remember watching it with a tinge of sadness ast the series was ending, but I knew it would be back the following year.
I wrote off not long after the series ended to apply for series 9, hopeful that I would finally get my chance to 'tread the path'
I got a reply back sometime in January 1995 from Vannessa Chapman stating that knightmare was no longer comissioned by CITV.
Me and my advisors ver all die-hard fans were very upset. Following my letter from VC I watched the whole of series 8.
I really enjoyed the whole series. I even really enjoyed the last episode. Though watching it recently I do feel it a bit (!) rushed.
I have no feelings of annoyance towards Dunstan or Oliver and their teams as some have over the last 11 years, though I do wonder what the point of having the final quest (Oliver) was if it only lasted 8 minutes and had no chance of being a winning quest.
Shame really, it would have been nice to go out on a winner...
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This is probably going to finally set in stone once and for all my reputation as an unashamed geek, but I thought I'd share the following views on the great controversy of the final season; in by-passing level 2, did Dunstan and team really cheat or not? (I must stress that this post is not discussing whether or not the short-cut they were given was unfair, merely whether they were cheating by using it.)
"Cheating" is an emotive term, and when using it, we have to keep in mind what it actually means. It does not mean merely being given an unfair advantage. It requires a deliberate, conscious decision to flout the rules, and that is clearly not what happened here. For one thing, the team did not come up with the idea of by-passing a level, the idea was presented to them and they chose to accept it.
You might respond to this by protesting that cheating is still cheating, and it doesn't become okay just because the referee happened to be the one who suggested the idea. However, I don't just mean that the person who solicits the crime should exclusively take the blame. I mean that, insofar as I can tell, there was no violation of the rules.
Now many of the the rules of Knightmare appear pretty arbitrary anyway, when we get to hear them at all. But the important aspect is that I have never heard or seen any rule from an official source that states that a dungeoneer must complete all three levels of the Dungeon in order to win the Knightmare Challenge. (There may have been something to that effect hidden away in obscure issues of The Quest, but if there was, I haven't read it. As far as I can tell, there isn't even a rule saying that a dungeoneer has to achieve a quest object, as such, which is why the first five quests of season one didn't appear to have one.)
For instance, if you study the books, especially the rules of the interactive game sections at the end of the first six, you will find no reference whatever to how many levels the dungeoneer is compelled to complete; for that matter, three of the interactive adventures aren't set in the Dungeon at all, but in landscapes that aren't even divided into levels. Besides, the rules in the various books often contradict each other, as well as those in the TV series, so even if they did state such a requirement, it would be quite acceptable to ignore them.
Another possible source is the Knightmare boardgame, which has a rules section on the inside of the lid. These do discuss the three levels of the Dungeon, and they appear to imply very strongly that a player needs to complete all of them in order to win. But even they don't present it as a legal requirement, and believe it or not, it is in fact possible to complete the game without ever entering level 2; if an opponent successfully wins a quest object, it can be taken from them before their next turn by using the Spell of Stealing card, which would allow the thief to move into level 3 at the start of their next turn (provided he/she does not become a victim of another spell in the meantime). In any case, the rules of the boardgame again contradict those of the TV series in various other ways.
Furthermore, even if such a rule ever did exist - and I can find no evidence that it did - the rules of the Challenge were often subject to change. For instance, before season 4, a worn object counted against the total number that a dungeoneer could carry at any one time (see Steve's use of the gauntlet in season 2), but with the introduction of the eye-shield, and then robes in season 5, a dungeoneer could now treat them as separate from clue objects. By season 8 it was possible to put clue objects in the knapsack, which was previously forbidden. In short, what once was not allowed, might later be legalised as the series evolved.
Finally, consider that the idea of by-passing a level because of the onset of season's end did have a precedent. Karen's team at the end of season 2 were given a Wheel of Fate that appeared to have Cedric's Cave and the Hall of Folly in its line-up, and both of them were always in level 2. Apparently, Karen didn't manage to pull the lever at the right time to select either of them (this is assuming that the Wheel's outcome wasn't always predetermined, and I must admit that I usually get the impression that it was), but even so, a short-cut seemed to be there.
So there is no rule stating that a dungeoneer must complete all three levels, and we only assume there is because, in most quests, there is no short cut available and so going through all three levels is the only way to get to the finish. In the end, for whatever reason, Dunstan's team happened to be lucky enough to be offered a short cut that nobody else was. It may be unfair, it may leave a slightly hollow feeling to their victory, but there is no law against getting lucky, and it certainly isn't cheating to ride your good luck when you get some.
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Hurray!
Somewhere I have the official "dungeon code" rules that were given to players. I also (I believe it was separate) have a list of tips, the only one of which I can remember is "Do not mumble. Tim Child particularly dislikes teams that whisper amongst themselves".
In any case, I do not ever recall the mention of three levels within those documents. In either case, the shortcut was specifically mentioned. So the rules or tips specifically allowed for it.
I'll need to see if i can dig that out...if I still have it.
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When I read complaints about this quest "cheating", I'm kind of reminded of football fans howiling for obstruction when one of their players runs into an opponent and falls over. In commentary, we'll hear Andy Gray admonishing, "There's no law saying you have to get out of the way!" Same here. There's no law saying a dungeoneer has to do level 2. As far as I can tell, the only rule for completing a quest is that the dungeoneer has to survive every obstacle he or she faces.
Another interesting detail worth considering is that in season one, Treguard stated that the exact number of levels in the Dungeon is not known. Eventually it becomes clear that there must be three, but in the early days, it would have been difficult for the rules to establish how many levels a dungeoneer must complete in order for the quest to be judged a success if the number of levels in the Dungeon wasn't actually known.
Somewhere I have the official "dungeon code" rules that were given to players. I also (I believe it was separate) have a list of tips, the only one of which I can remember is "Do not mumble. Tim Child particularly dislikes teams that whisper amongst themselves".
In any case, I do not ever recall the mention of three levels within those documents. In either case, the shortcut was specifically mentioned. So the rules or tips specifically allowed for it.
I'll need to see if i can dig that out...if I still have it.
That would be great if you can find it. And it would certainly be a priceless addition to the online archives if you could scan it and upload it.
Interesting that you say that short-cuts are, not just overlooked, but actively sustained by the rules you were given. Those rules would be as official and final as they can get, certainly more so than the sources I've listed, in which case, the argument about cheating should end there.
The argument about unfairness will still rumble on, mind.
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