Re:Forum Concern...
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As a moderator of a different forum I agree with you Malefact.
I think a little bit of series pruning of some topics and where necessary deleting topics in order to remove the negative and rude comments. I know it means Illusion will have to spend a fair bit of time, but some threads have gone so far off-topic that it is necessary.
I can put up with a bit of sillyness, and constructive/friendly arguments. However I cannot stand members being rude towards other members for no reason. If you want to talk about other members use the PM facility and not the general boards. Leave the fights until you get out into the playground.
If you don't want a post to be taken the wrong way use a smilie.
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Dear all, it has been an age since I set foot in here. I had initially high for the new design etc. Unfortanately we were plagued with ppl who put me severely off returning. Whilst not being able to access these forums in Shanghai, for thats where I am at present, I have been getting slowly more encouraged to come back. However, many of my closest friends from forum claim but there are some who are indeed aggravating things with no just cause and putting off many a poster I beleive. Manners cost nothing and I only hope things return to some sort of normalcy soon.
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Asking for a truce implies that we're responsible for the negativity as well when all we're trying to do is to calm the situation and try to make this place somewhere fun to be for everyone.
Personally, I'd very much like it for us all to move on if people have understood and taken on board the point that I've made.
To access the chat, you'll see a tab called 'Interactive' on the left-hand side of the www.knightmare.com front page. Clicking on it will take you to the Interactive Knightmare site. Click 'Clients' and select the program you'd like to use. (I use jIRC because it's simple for me to use - just make sure you select channel 6667 and not 6666). Tap in the name you'd like to go by and connect. You should find yourself in the chat room.
When you talk about points, I'll assume that you mean the post count beneath everyone's name. It's just the total number of times that person has posted something in this forum. It isn't a points system, though, and shouldn't really be treated as one - posting just to shore up one's count isn't particularly constructive, imo, and it wastes bandwidth. If you feel you have something constructive to say, though, that's what this forum is for and you're welcome to join in.
(P.S.: Again, I can't speak for Illusion, who runs and pays for the site and forum, but I hope that I properly defend the spirit in which it is done.)
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Yes, the main point was to calm things down as it is starting to cause many problems. However the post I made in general, and was not specifically aimed at you on your own.
If you have any trouble in accessing the chat room let me know and I shall try to help you in any way required.
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Lets just remember what we ae posting. OK, sometimes replies are not the most offensive in the world but it's not enjoyable to read posts where people insult each other.
Let's bring this to a close...
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I'm sorry that members feel that the forum isn't the friendly place that it once was. It's a difficult suituation. As you know I don't tolerate any sort of abuse and will remove messages and/or member's accounts as necessary.
The snapping/negativity between members is a little harder to detect, since it more affects people on a personal level and not as obvious.
I have two possible suggestions to help relieve the problem:
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Members affected by particular posts should make use of the 'Report to moderator' button and let me know a brief reason of the problem. While I scan through all messages, I may well miss things (especially as there are so many posts). I can then edit/delete messages very quickly. If a particular member is regularly reported then I can let the member know of the problem and try to resolve the issue.
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Appoint one or two moderators to help me monitor posts and edit/delete messages and issue warnings as necessary. I have been reluctant to do this up to now, since there is the issue of having an consistent approach, and also the selection of members to be moderators could bring disputes. However I do not wish to rule this out, and would be willing to give this a go if members think it's a good idea. I would appoint one or two members I have in mind.
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From my experience I would probably recommend the second option.
Sometimes a problem with a post can rapidly spread out of hand, and if only one person moderate by the time they check the board chaos reigns. If there is more than one moderator they are likely to be online at different times, and may be able to fix the problem post whilst it remains small.
However I would restrict what a moderator could do (depends on what your AdminCP is like). I would recommend allowing moderators to edit & delete post, lock & delete threads, and possibly warn members. I would not recommend allowing them to ban members as this is a more serious aspect.
Also I would recommend passing on a list of guidelines to any moderators as to what sort of things should be deleted and what to leave etc. Thus standards of moderating do not vary wildly.
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I agree that moderators would be useful during times of the day when I'm not around the forum. I'm usually on the forum in the evenings only, so moderators during the day would help respond quicker to disputes.
Yes. Moderators would not be able to ban members or remove accounts, but will be able to add/remove messages and issue warnings.
As for names of moderators... yes please suggest names of members who you think would be suitable moderators. I won't reveal the two who I think would be good at it yet, but they would obviously be invited for the role and if they do not wish to do it, that would be fine.
I would also appoint moderators on a one month trial basis to start with, to see how it affects the forum.
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As a lurker (someone who reads but doesn't usually post) I'd like to just say that some arguments that I've come across aren't always just one persons fault but basically a combination of continuous misunderstandings. Yes of course there does seem to be the odd occurance of trolls but they seem pretty rare in comparison.
What's my point, well I'm just wondering if more moderators were appointed would they be unbiased and uninvolved. Would there be a reasonable set of guidelines for how issues are dealt with, what with there being a variety of issues that can occur it's hard to say. The question is, when moderation occurs collectively where is the line drawn and how is it implemented.
So a little personal suggestion based very much upon a previous post here on this thread... Only allow moderators to deal with threads / posts where someone (anyone except a moderator) has indicated a problem. But that still doesn't solve the issue of the action to take on such a report.
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I'd agree that a rule would be....Only if there is a clear complaint/cry for help should a moderator intervene as such. At least then it keeps a cap on how much the Mod could do.
Action to a complaint should be dealt with via PM's, between two people if necessary, and if a particular post is particularly bad, say it has accusations and swearing in it, etc, then the post should be removed.
However, upon removal, there should be a fully justifyable account as to why the action was taken in the first place, and if the person in questions disagrees with the Mods decision, it should then be handed over to the top Mod, Nic obviously, and the situation will be dealt with with both sides of the story weighed up.
How does that sound?
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Indeed. I think it's important for there to be strict guidelines for dealing with any issues that might arise. If that weren't the case, there would be inconsistency. It might be inescapable, though. If a post is reported, then there will still be a degree of judgement involved on the part of the moderator. Is the post belligerent or not? This decision would have to be made.
Different kinds of situations will come up, though. Dealing with it, despite having a comprehesive procedure, will still involve discretion on the part of the mod. The mod must therefore be able to judge as well as possible.
Regarding action, I guess PM-ing is the best approach because it minimises negativity on the forum. Deleting posts might not be immediately possible - indeed, it might be avoidable if mere misunderstanding is involved in the part of the people involved. It would be necessary, in that case however, to post in the thread in question that the situation has been resolved.
There will be the occasional person, though, who cannot be reasoned with. They will either be convinced that they are doing nothing wrong or are deliberately having fun at the expense of others, knowing full well. I'm sure the mod would have no trouble in recommending the latter person be banned. The situation of the former person, though, is tricker. Again, it's a matter of discretion.
This is muddy territory, imo. It's just a ruddy shame that this kind of thing is necessary.
P.S.: Nice to see you posting, Forester! Shame about the circumstances.
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Indeed. I think it's important for there to be strict guidelines for dealing with any issues that might arise. If that weren't the case, there would be inconsistency. It might be inescapable, though. If a post is reported, then there will still be a degree of judgement involved on the part of the moderator. Is the post belligerent or not? This decision would have to be made.
Different kinds of situations will come up, though. Dealing with it, despite having a comprehesive procedure, will still involve discretion on the part of the mod. The mod must therefore be able to judge as well as possible.
Regarding action, I guess PM-ing is the best approach because it minimises negativity on the forum. Deleting posts might not be immediately possible - indeed, it might be avoidable if mere misunderstanding is involved in the part of the people involved. It would be necessary, in that case however, to post in the thread in question that the situation has been resolved.
There will be the occasional person, though, who cannot be reasoned with. They will either be convinced that they are doing nothing wrong or are deliberately having fun at the expense of others, knowing full well. I'm sure the mod would have no trouble in recommending the latter person be banned. The situation of the former person, though, is tricker. Again, it's a matter of discretion.
This is muddy territory, imo. It's just a ruddy shame that this kind of thing is necessary.
P.S.: Nice to see you posting, Forester! Shame about the circumstances.
Yes tend to agree on those points, my post, about deleting posts only covers a post which is majorly/deliberately offenssive. I think the subtle PM approach is the best idea.
No major action such as deleting a post should be taken unless what you do is fully justifyable. If you can explain why something was done, then the decision will have been assessed to the highest degree it possible could have been, as there is no set 'right' or 'wrong' way until any situation is properly thought through.
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Hello all (not that anyone would know, remember or, indeed, care about this voice) - on the eve of my losing connection for a month, I thought I'd break a recent habit and quickly check the forum for any sign of 'breakthrough'. I'm saddened: I used to be enthused to frequent the forums, used to take pride in providing long and detailed thoughts; feel pride in being one of a special crowd of Knightmare fans. I joined the forum under the guise that I would 'not find a friendlier online community' (-- --- ---; dulce et decorum est...) ~ and yet I only keep my account open under the dream that something will change.
This community is fast turning into a cult, and I'm not wanting part of it. I feel a little belittled by the thought and effort I used to put into every word I posted upon this forum, and it now feels rather meaningless. More to the point, I used to feel that regular posting in this forum was a engaging and complementative part of being a Knightmare fan, and now (although admittedly, I think I've been forever put off by an argument in January), where I used to think it a necessity to prove oneself as a dedicated fan, I couldn't care less. I would never single anyone out - perhaps it was meant to happen this way; but although I can't speak any further for Robin and Forester other than that I seem to currently share a trend, I'm gutted that I'm put off doing what I so loved last year.
Said my piece and made my peace.
KaM
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I suggest something along the lines of NKTPS moderators board. For each major board such as this one 'Website feedback' a moderator should be assigned to keep an eye and then report back to other mods so that votes and fair discussion can take place over warnings and/or deletion of posts which might be biased or contentious if if based solely on judgement of one person. There are 7 such boards so a majority of 4 say would justify appropiate action being taken I nominate Kieran, Malefact, Emii, Redmage, Ringmasterrob, GG, and Pooka (ben maydon cos I think there a few of you sprites lurking around).
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I would chip in a big long piece here but I don't think its needed, the silence of some of the oldest and longest posters around here and the fact that they want to leave the forum says more than I really could. Even I have become a lurker nowadays, when I used to post so often. Appointing mods would be a good solution in my mind. I would like to nominate; Kieran & Malefact. That's what I have to say on the subject
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Okay, figured I would raise my head for the drama. I can think of a lot of people I wouldn't want to be mods because I think they would let it go to their heads and start stomping around going 'I'm a mod which makes me better' and they really don't need to be any more arrogant or have more ammunition to make them consider themselves elitist.
I think the fairest way to organise this would be anyone interested (so we don't get people badgered into the post) writes a basic summary of why they would be a fair choice then we have a democratic vote. If we make it registered users before a certain date only that should stop people making extra accounts etc (although why anyone would do that is beyond me).
I like Forester's suggestion that they can only affect posts reported by other members, but they could just report them themselves. Maybe they could only do something where there is definitely a problem and leave Illusion to the more contraversial decisions?
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Moderator powers depend on what the board is capable of. The problem can be knowing when to moderate, as if you edited/deleted/locked everything you didn't like then nobody would use the board. I would recommend that moderators only intervine when the 'Report to moderator' feature has been used, or if its obvious the something needs acting on quickly.
In regards to who should be moderators I think that rachelesque's suggestion would be a good idea. Prehaps put the moderators on trial for a month so to speak.
Not every forum needs to necessarily have extra moderators in. From looking at things the main forum that needs an extra moderator is the General Discussion, as the rest of the forums don't seem to get as many problems.
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