Those that were denied...
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Also, a team once in series 5 (according to the series guides) missed their stop on the Descender and had to go through the Corridor of Blades. If they had got through, what do you think would have happened?
I know I am digressing from the original subject, but that happens quite a lot on these boards.
I'm going to pursue this tangent of Joe's, rather than the main topic.
The dungeoneer was Duncan from Team 8. Of its demise, Pickle asked, "Master, where did they get to if they didn't make it to Level 2?" I'd suggest the other level: Level 3. The team had stumbled upon a Short Cut and, had they got through the Corridor of Blades, they would have found themselves in Level 3 (maybe beyond the clue room, to keep them in 'losing status'). It would have been a stroke of luck akin to the pit in the Fortress Of Assassins gamebook: I wonder how many of you fell in, thought you were done for and, like me, could hardly believe what happened next.
Anyway, perhaps the Short Cut was always there in the descendor shaft, waiting to be discovered. When a dungeoneer with an almost identical forename uncovered the Short Cut three series later - albeit not via a descendor - it was the Corridor of Blades again.
However, that is deliberately wild speculation. Quite simply, the team wasn't meant to survive the CoB, nor get any further, in my opinion: they were given it as punishment for a fatal mistake. The nastiest of surprises for the team, and a crowd-pleaser for the Watchers.
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Giles team was Robbed the most they were probably 2 more rooms from Victory!
Next room after transporter they would own up Mogdread with a TINY spell and pick up the cup in the next chamber. ( WOULD HAVE BEEN THE ONLY TIME WE SAW THE CUP TOO ).
It was disgusting and I bet they are still peeved now - they could have easily let them finish it and just edit out some of Treguard and Pickles Banter!, Muppets lol.
S4 team 1 - BUT? How on earth were they even supposed to even think of using that when its Humble?
Your against a feary enemy you need power to match up there was no hints NOT to use Transformation.
S4 team 5 - the whole backwards thing was stupid in the riddles but having said that I doubt they would have got past the B & T anyway lol.
S3 Martin should have got the nod maybe Leo too all that hard work and one stupid little error cost them in penultimate room, both very unfair in the context of how leniant the show became years later. And their Riddles were stinkers.
S3 Scotts team they did not do a bad jump at all and he clearly landed ok yet the producers killed him anyway for not having the first step - STUPID.
S5 - team 2 they had No time after the spyglass viewing to think what to take since Ariadne came up instantly making them hastily pick 2 items with no time for thought!
S6 team 6 despite not getting the Diploma they were even denied the chance to guess their way across the causeway with the food there to hold them up and a double speed frightknight timer the production crew were taking no chances of them getting through via guessing.
( even though team 5 guessed a bit too due to Ariadne not letting them read the whole scroll I guess, Either that or they just had to figure it out)
Can't think of anyone else - everyone else who has died has failed due to their own stupidity somewhere along the line.
As for Gideons team in series 8 they were not robbed they were having to do the COB exactly the same way as everyone before them had to - blind. I
f they had not panicked and got themselves together and passed it I am sure they would not have paid a penalty for not taking the sight potion since Treguard clearly hinted it was for that.
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various occasions I agree with the team who were told time up in transportation room, the filming wasnt time limited only airtime so they could have edited afterwards to fit in air time.
The one I clearly remember is s6 team who didnt get the clue for causeway. Stupid. The price for not getting clue should have been simply having to guess the path but instead they were given a shorter lifeforce time to get the food and a quicker frightnight a deliberate death.
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I can't remember a lot, been ages since i saw knightmare, but i still remember the Sly one, when he tied them up, allready been mentioned. The one where the dude with the eyepatch clamped his Irons on the dungeneer was amusing.
"I'm gonna crack you over the 'ead, and stick me irons on you!"
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well here's a couple of my faves
- Series 3 Ross asnd co from birmingham. i think theyd have gone all the way if it hadn't been 4 that evil morghana and the axe.
2.series 1 team 1 yes no way did tim child want a first team to win so mogdred finished them off
- Poor sofia denied access to the scroll but i suppose they could have guessed especially as the food on the floor was probably an indication.
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S5 - team 2 they had No time after the spyglass viewing to think what to take since Ariadne came up instantly making them hastily pick 2 items with no time for thought!
In the room before Ariadne, Gwendoline had hinted that the team needed to take the gold in order to bribe their way through. When Dan, one of the advisors in that team signed the Knightmare guestbook, he even stated that his team died as a result of being foolish enough not to take the gold.
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Were they? I don't remember that i'll have to throw my tape in of series 5 and have a look.
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You might find it more convenient to have a look via YouTube: http://youtube.com/watch?v=3VJR0vAbt-E, 4:25 onwards.
"Once you have the supplies, you will be able to bribe your way through to the Gate-Tower."
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On series 3 I watched Leo and Martins quests again - they both lost so cruelly although I actually knew Martins riddle dead easy I knew the answer as a kid too STAG alonge gave it away it was a species of Beetle. Shame they did not realise it, they totally deserved to win.
It was cruel of the producers to let em go so far on after to kill them in the penultimate room.
I DO THINK Leos team were robbed through that was a ghastly riddle. Such a shame and if Only Martin knew BEETLE they would have changed history, Shot Morghanna in the eye with a pin and gone on and won the quest.
I looked at s5 youtube clip I suppose they should have picked up the Hint BRIBE and realised gold = bribery Ariadne did not give them any time though but to just grab the horn out of sheer random ness when they had the hint to bribe I guess ... tough, lol. but never mind it made for a good death. LOVELLLY
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I DO THINK Leos team were robbed through that was a ghastly riddle. Such a shame and if Only Martin knew BEETLE they would have changed history
A Series 3 quest was increasingly merciless in terms of correct answer requirements: on Level 1, a single truth was enough to pass; on Level 2, "2 out of 2 or it just won't do"; on Level 3, 1 out of 1 or the quest was done. Add to that the difficulty of the Level 3 questions and it does seem like Leo and Martin met with unfairness, in my opinion.
I looked at s5 youtube clip I suppose they should have picked up the Hint BRIBE and realised gold = bribery Ariadne did not give them any time though but to just grab the horn out of sheer random ness when they had the hint to bribe I guess ... tough, lol.
Then again, a certain dungeoneer in the previous series had "got the horn" and successfully bribed his way past a guard with it - and gone on to win. But having said that, Level 2 of Series 5 was quite different from Level 1 of Series 4: 4 dungeoneers perished during the former, whereas during the latter, dungeoneers were seemingly invincible and couldn't choose a wrong clue object if they tried!
It seems that as soon as Richard's advisors saw the spyglass, they thought they could take a breather while they did some viewing. Had they kept their guard up and remembered the nature of where they were (they had all the Ariadne's Lair experiences of Series 4 to go on), they might have made the right choice of clue objects.
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To twist knightmaredave's topic and reverse the idea - how about the teams who you thought deserved to go further or win in the dungeon? Or even the teams who could have gotten further?
Spoilers below*
There are many who we feel were dealt a short straw I'm sure of that.
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Jamie Series 2. This team were bright enough - but in a super quick series with each chamber a dangerous one they were not fast enough. I 've chosen them because they answered six out of six riddles correctly - not to be ignored when they weren't all easy riddles either. And I wouldn't have said they were that slow either. They deserved to get to level 3 I feel. They definitely got a really hard level 2 seeing it again and then got into a tangle, literally.
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Giles Series 4. The entertainment value of this quest deserved a win alone, but to be cruelly denied victory due to time limit was a great shame. The team were not only good contestants but great sports, inquisitive minds and obviously in it for the experience. Giles and co proved you could get far in knightmare and not necessarily take it ultra seriously. And I really wanted to see that final showdown between Giles and Mogdred . Would have been epic.
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Sophia Series 6. If knightmare was just an obstacle course, then this team might just be my first choice to complete it successfully. Their navigation of causeways was sublime (although ironically they died on the great causeway) and Sophia was refreshingly feisty. This team -but for one question- most definitely deserved that crown.
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I definitely agree with no 2 and 3 above. Both woz robbed in my opinion.
Giles' team were one of the most intelligent teams who were fantastic to watch. All the way through you wanted them to win. If nothing else at least they got to take part in the end of season scene.
Sophia's team should have won, having got as far as they did. Plus they should have scored brownie points on being one of the few teams to 'play the game' and interact with the characters in the dungeon. Her back chat to Elita was spot on!
It is also the team which made me laugh the most a silly comments, when Pickle exclaims: "Elf boots!" Referring to his amazement of the ring that makes Sofia grow. So one of the team tell Sofia the ring has something to do with elf boots and Pickle gives her a very strange look!!
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My option goes to Series 6 Team 1 .
In Matt, they had one of the best ever dungeoneers to grace the dungeon, and his brilliant interactions with the characters was superb. The advisors were very impressive in their parts as well.
They actually did everything spot on up until their death on the Level 2 causeway, and that was only because it was deemed that Matt's left foot was just an inch too far off the path.
An unfair death that put an end to a thoroughly enjoyable quest. Had they actually crossed that causeway successfully, I'm sure Level 3 would have immediately followed, and maybe the team could have even gone on to win as well.
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i beliueve helen and co in s 4 team 1 should have won as modgred was very unfair to axe them like that. they chose the wrong spell but well they would't have known that BUTwas correct.
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Yeah Helen S4 is a tricky one. It was not an easy choice having to choose one of those two spells and either one could have been wrong. In The Eyeshield Jake Collins writes "could it have been more luck than judgement?" as Mogdred didn't have many victims to his name. This might have been the case or it might have been 'first team syndrome' whereby first teams are given a harder time than later teams to preserve the threat of the dungeon. Well, it's a theory anyway. If the first team won, an initial audience reaction might be - 'well that was easy!!' but the dungeon dynamics could have changed to make it harder for later teams - which you never know, might have happened in a series 9, falsifying my theory completely.
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I don't remember the series 2 team right now, but for the other two:
Giles' team should certainly have one. They seemed to have difficulty after difficulty thrown at them at the end in order to conveniently kill them off, but overcame them. They provided one of the few bits of entertainment in a dull series. Surely a bit of editing to the overall series would've enabled them to fit a win in?
Sophia's team were very entertaining, and deserve a massive cheer for answering back to Elita, but we've had other teams fail on a single Level 3 question, and although it was pretty harsh (and rare by then) that's the dungeon for you.
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This is one of those discussions that I guess people keep coming back to. Here's my thoughts:
Series 1 - tough to say, since most of the teams made "series 1 mistakes", that is to say mistakes that occurred through natural unfamiliarity with the format. Of course, James' fatal sidestep in series 3 comes under this category but by that point in the show was just sheer stupidity!
Series 2 - yes, Jamie was treated unfairly, no question. Especially compared to the hints that Neil got (does anyone else think that some of that team were dyslexic, and that's why they got the hints?).
Series 3 - Leo's riddle was a stinker, and Simon's amulet didn't have a "tracker facility" - even a little shadow on the floor would have helped. Scott's jump was indeed a good one, and it always threw me that they suddenly died. Cliff, there's arguments for and against there. Ross was unlucky too, that cliff path was tough to judge.
Series 4 - Alistair was unlucky getting the CoB like that, they were really on the ball for the whole of their quest (they didn't get a single riddle wrong). The backwards riddles that Vicky (or was it Nicky?) faced were confusing, that was very unfair, and Jeremy was a little hard done by too. Giles - absolutely was treated unfairly. Those long-winded spyglass sequences were the killer. They should have done what they did in series 1 and edit things a bit.
Series 5 - Sarah was hard done by, they were a very capable team, and they did eventually give Elita that gem. Alex's "slowness" on the causeway was a debatable issue, which I guess is why they put a visible clock there next season. Christopher needed three objects from one clue room to successfully complete level 2, so he was very unfairly treated indeed.
Series 6 - Matt's causeway death has always rankled with me, because it doesn't actually look like he put a foot wrong on it. And yes, Sofia didn't even get a chance to fail on the Great Causeway. Btw - Ben on that same causeway, the advisors used logic to work out the sequence.
Series 7 - Ben and the scattered spell was very unfair, considering the ease of the clues by this point in the series, the need to use that darkness powder or whatever it was, was not at all obvious. Usually, even in the first series, it's obvious what needs to be done, the question is do they have the means?
Series 8 - Daniel's CoB experience was indeed unfair. Also, Michael is another one that can be argued both ways.
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Not compiling my list as of yet, but the But death was a fair one in my view - That they should cast it was quite clearly indicated, albeit somewhat crypticly - Merlin told them it was a humble spell, followed by Mordread going on about them being humble before him or something like that.
Goodness knows what it would have done, however.
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Series 4 - Alistair was unlucky getting the CoB like that, they were really on the ball for the whole of their quest (they didn't get a single riddle wrong). The backwards riddles that Vicky (or was it Nicky?) faced were confusing, that was very unfair, and Jeremy was a little hard done by too. Giles - absolutely was treated unfairly. Those long-winded spyglass sequences were the killer. They should have done what they did in series 1 and edit things a bit.
Just noticed I made an error there - for spyglass, read eye-shield, as I'm sure you'd already figured out anyway.
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