Re-assessing Season 8; know what? I like it after all
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I'm working my way through the whole set of seasons and am currently on season 5 (episode 12, I think). I was thinking, 'ah, season 8 isn't going to be up to much, that's a shame - the marathon will end in a downer'. But from your writeup it seems that maybe I've been pessimistic in that view.
I look forward to it afresh!
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Majida is also far less obstructive or obstreperous than she was in season 7, while Brother Strange is far stranger than the generic hooded-man-of-mystery figure he was previously as well.
Now, I preferred BS in Series 7-- call me odd. I preferred him as a cool, enigmatic guardian-angel character who crept around. It's as if in Series 8 they had dosed him up on Prozac!
I do agree about Majida, I'm glad she had calmed down in Series 8. Honesty Batram I didn't mind, I can see they were trying to do a glib/wideboy trader-- Julius S meets Del Boy. Even Snapper Jack I found OK, in a 'scrig' way.
My favourite feature of Series 8 was the miremen: Trolls would be too small to fit in the mireworld, not sure if goblins would be suited to that environment-- miremen much better than the unscary "marching feet" too IMO
They were a visible and looming threat, and looked hideous too-- and managed to finish one quest off!
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Yeah, I actually posted a topic very similar to this a few months ago called "Positive things about Series 8", where i had rewatched the series and found it much better than I'd remembered (or more accurately, than I'd been led to believe by the overwhelming opinions on KM.com).
It was certainly was a very good series in many ways.
Anyway, the topic I made was merged into the "Series 8 Summarising" thread, even though it was quite clearly making a seperate point about the series and not just summarising it.
I look forward to this topic being merged the same way. And if not, I'd like my topic to be un-merged again too.
Onto the points made by HStorm and yes, it's good you can admit the reasons behind your initial opinions may have been flawed. I think it's important for one to remember that one's opinions are subject to change and therefore should not be taken by other members, who may be considered "lesser" fans, as gospel fact.
I personally think all seasons of Knightmare are equally good. The "Series # was better/worse than Series #" opinions are irrelevant for me, because while I of course have my preferences, they are just that - opinion. Liking Series 8 better than series 7 doesn't make it better. Just means it worked personally for you this time round. Next year, you might watch series 7 again and think it's the best thing since sliced bread!
While it is of course fun to notice and discuss the differences between series (that's indeed what the message board is all about), one could also argue that it would make for more enjoyable viewing to simply conclude that ALL seasons are pretty good, sit back, and enjoy watching them.
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You know... it's true. Series 8 isn't that bad. Well, apart from the length of the series, (8 episodes? Is that all we get?) the quiche/pie and the Deus ex Machina Short Cut. The latter three series did seem to be a lot better scripted, though I'm disappointed that there wasn't a multi-quest plot arc in S8 like there was with Red Death in S6 and the trolls in S7. (though having said that, they didn't really have time to build up to something like that)
As Martin already said, the dialogue is a lot better and feels a lot more natural, and I've recently discovered that Maldame is in fact hilarious. And the team of Gideon, Ben, Justin and Daniel are serious contenders for the title of "Most Hilarious Team Ever" I wish they'd won, if they hadn't been so panicky they'd have gotten through the Corridor of Blades... but if they hadn't seen so panicky, they wouldn't have been nearly as amusing. And let's not forget Stilletta and her shapely... personality.
Having said that, I really don't like the emphasis on the SIGHT and VISOR spells and the like. Yes, the visor can be raised now, I know, good for you, but since when has a Dungeoneer needed to see to go through the Corridor of Blades? And every time Treguard goes "you needed x/y/z to help you with this VERY DIFFICULT PUZZLE" I gag a little because knowing your right from your left is hardly a very difficult puzzle. And Lord Fear's costume and makeup... wtf? So Old Skullface is now Old Skull-In-The-Back-Of-the-Head-Face? What was wrong with the metal helmet?
Anyway, I'm sure I've gone over those particular gripes before, and even so Series 8 is still better than I remember it being, I do wish they'd had more than eight episodes to work with. And I wish Daniel's team had won.
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You know... it's true. Series 8 isn't that bad. Well, apart from the length of the series, (8 episodes? Is that all we get?)
You miscounted.
And let's not forget Stilletta and her shapely... personality.
How could we ever forget?
Having said that, I really don't like the emphasis on the SIGHT and VISOR spells and the like.
To be fair, that was just a continuation of a sad trend set in season 7.
And every time Treguard goes "you needed x/y/z to help you with this VERY DIFFICULT PUZZLE" I gag a little because knowing your right from your left is hardly a very difficult puzzle?
(Heh, it was for some teams...)
If you think about it, Treguard has a long history of that sort of thing. How many times in seasons 1 & 2 did he talk up the Great Corridor of the Catacomb to such a degree that you half-expected it to be guarded by Cerberus himself, and instead the 'horrifying' menace proved to be a small creature that made a gurgling noise and stepped from side-to-side occasionally?
Lord Fear's costume and makeup... wtf? So Old Skullface is now Old Skull-In-The-Back-Of-the-Head-Face? What was wrong with the metal helmet?
Lord F's new look remains very distracting, even 14+ years on, yeah.
I do wish they'd had more than eight episodes to work with.
Whispers quietly Erm, they did, they had 10.
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My favourite feature of Series 8 was the miremen: Trolls would be too small to fit in the mireworld, not sure if goblins would be suited to that environment
You're forgetting miretrogs! Now THEY were scary.
I try to I thought the miretrogs were superfluous-- the trolls did that particular job excellently and were scarier than the miretrogs IMO.
I loved the scene where that Devonian team were trying to unlock the rune puzzle, and a troll was slowly closing in on them... that scared me as a 10-year-old anyway.
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I've discovered I like Snapper Jack. Thinking about it, it must have been unnerving for the dungeoneers, having someone who is, judging from his voice, quite insane circling them slowly and throwing ridles at them, while refusing to even acknowledge weather the answers were correct or not.
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I liked the level transformations myself. For example, the now abandoned fortress of Goth went from Level 3 to Level 2. Indicating to people who followed the previous season closely, that the "toughest level has been shifted down a notch. And that the new Level 3 (in MarbleHead) is going to be just as treacherous!
*I see nobody likes the Short Cut bit
(*YET I must say! I learned that from my Fun House fiasco I caused in the Knewbie Welcome... Sorry Chaps )
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*I see nobody likes the Short Cut bit
I think the short-cut would have worked if they had put more than one challenge in it. The COB, followed by Play Your Cards right-- then may be Trial by Spikes or reintroduction of a timed causeway-- before getting to Level 3?
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I think the short-cut would have worked if they had put more than one challenge in it...
I suppose so, there was so much they could have done with Series 8 but with such short time this couldn't be done. I'm starting to realise myself (after a few cigarettes) that this season wasn't too bad. As it is this season has something about it which made it quite a memorable one.
Not that it was memorible just because it was the last season.
I reckon Smirkenoff would have given rides to dungeoneers in this season. But the trapdoors were quicker to use as transitions to another level what with the plummeting... What was it, the lack of ratings or viewings? I'm not sure...
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I don't know..I'm undecided really...
On the one hand:
....the series got pimped up MAJORLY making it a lot more immersive and impressive looking to say the least.
...Majita stopped being irrate at every little thing and settled down into a good companion for Treguard.
...more Lord Fear bits getting rid of the need to go 'oh look someones using a spy-glass GLOWY EYES OF DEATH' made it more tense and gave us more dialogue.
...Return of Mottley! And Stilletta was ok, though I never managed to identify what the thing on her head was. It looked 'jolly uncomfortable' whatever it was.
But then again....
...Treguard's speaky bits got cut down a LOT. And he did overuse 'Oooooh naaaaasty' with an unecessary emphasising-wince.
...Majita basically chucking failed dungeoneers out into the wilderness. Presumably to be eaten by the wolves Pickle kept fretting about. Seemed a bit of an anti-climax in comparision to zapping them away.
...Mire-men, sorry but I found them a lot less scary than the goblins. The scariest thing about the goblins was the calling horn that announced doom was near. It still makes me freeze up! 0.0
...The Pie, the adaptable knapsack and a wand called reach. Three examples of pointless and unhappy changes. The pie made the life-force meter even less effective, the knapsack thing was clearly so the wand could be used and the wand itself seemed really fiddly and overcomplicated solution for a simple problem. What happened to just touching them?
Not that I don't like series 8, I guess a lot of it is sadness since it was the last one. I just watch it and think 'Oh no it's over soon!'
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It is the best scene in the whole series.
Anyway, I love S8, one of my favourite series. The fact that it looked pimped isn't why I liked it so much, though, it's the general setting of the thing I like. It's much darker than previous series, there's a whole new Dungeon to explore and even a new antechamber, of which I like the design.
I like the Great Mire and the idea that you need to cross a huge underground sea to get from what was essentially Treguard's Dungeon to two HUGE PALACES OF EVIL. It gave the whole 'level 3' thing more emphasis on how dangerous it actually was, because there was a clear divide between it and the Dungeon. I'd have been scared stiff stepping off the mysterious Golden Galleon onto a bank next to a palace owned by an evil sorceress.
Maldame. Now she was a good new character - almost a true Neutral, despite 'officially' being an Opposition character, meaning that the teams had to be very wary around her. Stiletta was good too, although a much nicer character overall she was definitely in no way a goody two-shoes. Brother Strange's part was beefed-up and he seemed more rounded.
Motley, my favourite character, made a return, and I'm pleased about that, especially when he and Stiletta made a good double-act.
I, unlike everyone else in the world, liked Honesty Bartram. Rothberry's scene was a great one, but he wasn't in it at all apart from that one time. But it was a nice little cameo.
But the thing that sparkles most for Series 8 is the dialogue. The Monopoly scene was fantastic, as mentioned, but all of Lord Fear's scenes has some genuine wit in them. He seemed more threatening when striding about, Lissard was a great henchman and they played off against each other well. Mark Knight really got his teeth into the part magnificently and I still laugh at his lines today.
I have never belived that Dunstan's victory was unfair. They were pushed into taking the shortcut and won fair and square. They clearly weren't expected to win (in fact, I think Oliver was, but ol' Dunstan hung on longer than anyone thought he did), and looking back on it they did have a very tough Level 3. Daniel had a good team too, tough and resourceful; they damn near won and fun to watch as well.
So overall, I love Series 8 and I loved it when I watched it first time around. It's dark, gritty, original and overall enjoyable. I'd rate it above 1, 2, 4 and 5, on a par with 6 and 3, and slightly below 7. But I'm weird like that.
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Season 8 has many good ppoints.It brings in some good characters like snapper jack and the return of Motley! Also stiletta as well. The skelletrons and mire men were an ideal replacement for the then getting on a bit gobloins and the mire trogs were a good aded effect for level 3.The problem with s8 is that the u know whats a ITs trashy vision went and cut the series so all those great ideas that Tim had were rushed and spoilt to get a winnig quest. Level 3 was good the challengign c o blades and the fire bom room really amde it feeel level 3 like again! The negative side was the rooms were samey (BUT looked realloly good!) in genereal if it hdad had its 15 week run it would have had much more positive reviews!!!!
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