Were they that bad?
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Not that I'm siding with the opposition of course!
I don't see why not though. I think there are probably a number of closet Opposition-supporters on this forum! You know who you are, splitters...
Is it not possible that Fear was trying to secure a land grab that Treguard was wanting back?
Anything's possible, but I don't see any evidence of it.
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I don't see any evidence that the quest objects were rightfully Lord Fears, especially considering they were around in the dungeon long before LF came along.
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I don't see any evidence that the quest objects were rightfully Lord Fears, especially considering they were around in the dungeon long before LF came along.
No, but then I don't see any evidence that Treguard had a right to them either. And as they were in Fear's possession, and Treguard was effectively trying to steal them, the morality was even at best.
Also, consider that with the exception of the Cup That Heals, the objects were only around for about one season before LF arrived. In the first season there were no particular quest objects, except in quest six, and in seasons two and three, they were different quest objects e.g. the Sword was the Sword of Justice, not the Sword of Freedom, and the Shield was the Shield of Liberty, not the Shield of Justice.
One possibility is that Mogdred successfully claimed and united the fragments of the original quest objects between seasons 3 and 4 - the power he gained by doing this would be what allowed him to make the Dungeon grow and spread so far in such a short time - and he was able to use the enlarged Dungeon territories to claim the new quest objects as well. Then when he disappeared, Lord Fear took his place and, as it were, 'inherited' all of Mogdred's treasure.
Not a particularly honourable legacy, but then they hardly ever were in the medieval era.
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What I find interesting is how in the beginning, it seemed to be referred to as either Treguard's dungeon, or THE dungeon, that Treguard had mastered. Either way, the early implication seemed to be that Treguard was in control.
When Mogdred popped up, I still didn't really consider him to be the head of the opposition, since he seemed to be opposed by Merlin rather than Treguard.
I suspect the underlying reason for the change was that it made little sense to send a dungeoneer in to the dungeon to "hang out", and that a quest was required. At that point, you introduce quest objects and from there, you obviously need someone to defend them. There can't really be a search for the items, since the progression through the dungeon is linear.
I don't believe anyone makes any claim to owning the quest objects - just to possessing them.
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I like to compare it to the classic quests for Excalibur and the Holy Grail. Nobody legally "owned" those objects, but they were sought by many different parties for good or bad purposes and there were many who were prepared to fight or even to kill for them. Since we don't actually know what the quest objects were used for we have no way of knowing if Treguard has any right to them or if Lord Fear/Mogdred does or if both parties are entitled to them. It's entirely an assumption.
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We don't even know if the quest objects STAYED in the winners posession after a quest was completed!
Anyone remember the succesful quest for the Cup that was followed by... The quest for the cup?
Didn't one of the seasons block out the option to Quest for a Quest Option that had already been chosen? The one where the choice was via bridges to portals with the quest object symbols over the four portals, as I recall.
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Anyone remember the successful quest for the Cup that was followed by... The quest for the cup?
Actually, I've just realised that I don't remember that; no team ever won on the Quest for the Cup. Mind you, in season 6, Team 5 won the Crown, and the next quest was also for the Crown. Was that the one you were thinking of?
Didn't one of the seasons block out the option to Quest for a Quest Object that had already been chosen? The one where the choice was via bridges to portals with the quest object symbols over the four portals, as I recall.
That's the season 6 'Place of Choice' you're describing. And no, it didn't block out any of the options, somewhat strangely (see above). If I recall correctly though, after Ben's team claimed the Shield in season 5, the teams that followed were only offered the three other options.
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Anyone remember the successful quest for the Cup that was followed by... The quest for the cup?
Actually, I've just realised that I don't remember that; no team ever won on the Quest for the Cup. Mind you, in season 6, Team 5 won the Crown, and the next quest was also for the Crown. Was that the one you were thinking of?
Ah yeah... sorry. Yer spot on. I simply remember a quest being won then quested for straight after.
Kinda adds some weight to the idea that the quest items don't "truly" exist. They're simply tokens of victory to be taken from the opposition. If you can...
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This is an interesting discussion!
If we go back to the books, Dunshelm/Knightmare Castle is Treguard's birthright anyway. In wresting his castle back from the Gruagach and inheriting the dungeon in the process, he wasn't stealing, just reclaiming what was supposed to be his anyway.
Also, in Can You Beat The Challenge, Folly states that the Gruagach thrives on competition and that they have to be given a chance to face him.
Mybe that was still the case when Lord Fear replaced him.
Maybe he has to make mistakes so the Dungeoneers get as close to him as possible.
So were the Oppostiton that bad? Yes and no.
While they were part of the evil of the Dungeon Dimension, and Lord Fear and Mogdred could have used their power to quash a quest in an instant, that would have left no competition and no contest so it must be the need that the Oppostition has to face the enemy that causes their blunders to be made.
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I don't see any evidence that the quest objects were rightfully Lord Fears, especially considering they were around in the dungeon long before LF came along.
No, but then I don't see any evidence that Treguard had a right to them either. And as they were in Fear's possession, and Treguard was effectively trying to steal them, the morality was even at best.
I seem to recall talk of "redeeming" the quest objects - certainly Lord Fear mentions the possibility of Barry "redeeming" the Shield. To me, that suggests regaining possession of the items in question. So either Lord Fear had originally stolen them from the Powers That Be, or they'd been loaned to him as part of the game.
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Possible, but there are many different definitions of the word, and I always took it to mean 'obtain the release of'.
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