Treguard
-
Well, it almost certainly didn't spring from the same origins of Homer's oral poetry - dungeons do not feature in the Iliad or, as far as I know, in the Odyssey. So I'm afraid it's not in the same class as such repeated epithets as "wine-dark sea", "rosy-fingered Dawn" and "winged words".
-
Yes. Although it looks formulaic in the way that as the phrases Thanatos has listed, because Latin and Greek/Homeric epic poetry was not based on rhyme and did not tend to use alliteration in quite that way, I agree that 'dungeons dark and caverns deep' is unlikely to have its origins in Classical literature.
-
Has anyone made a complete list of Tolkien references in Knightmare, as The Eye Shield did with Camelot / Robin Hood / Greek mythology? These are the ones I remember noticing...
~ Golgarach's first two questions in episode 310:
"In another legend, who was the first hobbit to hold the ring?" (Bilbo Baggins*)
"In the same legend, what were goblins called?" (Orcs)
*(Indeed, the whole concept of "answer some riddles or be eaten" may have come from The Hobbit!)
~ Pickle in episode 511: "Hmm. Not exactly the Last Homely House, master. Can't believe there'll be much of a welcome here." A very nice reference to Elrond's home in the Elven settlement of Rivendell, where the adventurers rest for a while in both The Hobbit and Lord Of The Rings.
~ Pickle in episode 606: "Surely only Elves cross the great ocean, and when they do, it's never to return!" Refers to the Elves departing Middle-earth and sailing to the Undying Lands. Again, a nice line for Pickle!
~ Captain Nemanor's name is surely a corruption of "Númenor", the island realm of Men which was destroyed as punishment for attempting to conquer the Undying Lands. (Nemanor himself is being punished for something, though I don't think they specified what he'd done?)
~ Lord Fear in episode 608: "Someone has stolen my ring of power!" (I wonder if Lord Fear is somewhat based on Sauron in general. He seems to have quite a few rings of power. Sauron has a volcano called Mount Doom; LF has a volcano called Mount Fear. Sauron has the Dark Tower of Mordor; LF has the Black Tower of Goth. Sauron is called the Necromancer; LF is called the Technomancer. They both use goblins to defend their territory from small intruders. And then there's Pippin spying on Sauron through a palantír, which is very dangerous but ultimately helps their quest...)
~ Series 7 features a Level 2 location called the Rift of Angar, which is only one letter away from Angmar, a similarly mountainous region in Middle-earth where bad things dwell.
~ Grimaldine accepts the gift of an "Arkenstone" in episode 703 - the name of the precious stone that was highly valued by Thorin in The Hobbit. Grimaldine's "Arken shield" (used by Julie to defeat Lord Fear in episode 712) might be similarly inspired by Thorin's epithet, Oakenshield.
~ Was the green gem previously called an "Elfstone" at some point? In LOTR, one of Aragorn's names is "the Elfstone" because of the green gem he wears (a gift from Arwen).
~ Majida calling Treguard "Treebeard" at the start of Nicola's quest in episode 703! The name of an Ent who aids the Fellowship.
~ Smirkenorff in episode 705: "A strange but fell beast hunts for me." I suspect there's a subtle LOTR reference here, as Tolkien used the term "fell beast" to describe the Ringwraiths' winged mounts (so that's what the creatures are often called).
~ Treguard's rhyming recap in Series 8, "Through dungeons deep and caverns dark", is very similar to a dwarf song from The Hobbit (featuring the lyrics "To dungeons deep and caverns old" and "To dungeons deep and caverns dim"). Coincidence, I think not.
~ Maldame to Lord Fear in episode 802: "You have two towers." No further explanation required, really!
~ If we're counting Knightmare VR, the awful new version of Lissard sounds rather more like Gollum, with the whole "orcssesss" bit. I'm surprised he didn't start muttering about his "precious" and wondering what the dungeoneer has got in its pocketses... (Speaking of Gollum, I suppose his tendency to argue with himself might even have inspired Bhal-Shebah!)
These ones are a bit more tenuous:
~ Ariadne, possibly (dare I say "probably"?) inspired by Shelob. Both have a perilous lair that must be journeyed through, and are famous for having many descendants.
~ Oakley, possibly inspired by the Ents? (It's not a hugely original idea, though.)
~ Stiletta's cloak of invisibility? Again, not a very original idea, but the Elven cloaks gifted to the hobbits in LOTR have similar properties. (Sam gets a magic rope, too!)
~ The Pool of Veracity? Not entirely unlike the Mirror of Galadriel... but I'm stretching it now, I think!
~ Treguard to Majida in episode 808: "Some small people are often remarkably fierce and tenacious, you know." Probably not a Hobbit reference as he seems to be talking about Majida herself, but it did make me wonder.
So... did I miss anything?
-
Oh, I remembered another one - the Army of the Dead in Series 1. Probably quite a well-used phrase, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was borrowed from LOTR (the ghost army summoned by Aragorn).
-
This is rather impressive, and I bet you enjoyed compiling it too. Perhaps you'd consider turning it into a Lexicon entry.
Tim Child is on record as having been 'a bit of a Tolkien and Hobbit freak' so there's no reason to doubt any of your suggestions, although...
~ Captain Nemanor's name is surely a corruption of "Númenor"
In the absence of detailed LOTR knowledge, it always struck me as a reference to Captain Nemo.
~ Was the green gem previously called an "Elfstone" at some point?
"Elvenstone" on one or two occasions, I think.
I'm still desperate to know what a dooley is, and the only theory I have left is that it's something from Tolkien. Am I engaging in straw clutching?
-
I wouldn't know how to turn it into a Lexicon entry, but feel free to do it yourself, or talk me through it!
In the absence of detailed LOTR knowledge, it always struck me as a reference to Captain Nemo.
Oh yes, hadn't thought of that... perhaps it's a cross between the two!
Can't think of anything dooley-esque from Tolkien! That's a strange one.
-
This is rather impressive, and I bet you enjoyed compiling it too. Perhaps you'd consider turning it into a Lexicon entry.
I wouldn't know how to turn it into a Lexicon entry, but feel free to do it yourself, or talk me through it!
http://interactive.knightmare.org.uk
Click on Lexicon - if you haven't made an entry on the Lexicon before, then you'll need to set up an account there first. In which case, click "Login" (it can be found in the Options box) and in "Create Account" fill in the necessary details. Upon hitting "Create", you should eventually be taken back in the Lexicon main page, where in the Options box you should now be able to see a link entitled "Add Entry".
You can now write and contribute an entry to the Knightmare Lexicon - before you do however, I strongly recommend you experiment and have a look at some of the other entries beforehand. This forum topic may also prove to be very useful:
-
Nice debut well done!
-
I'm wondering if there's a bit of a LOTR reference in Leo's quest, when Hordriss appears on the bridge and says "You really cannot pass, you know ... You'll just have to go back, or perhaps go down". Reminds me of Gandalf telling the Balrog "Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass" on the Bridge of Khazad-dûm.
Check this out!
Treguard: Aragorn
Merlin: Gandalf
Mogdred: Morgoth
Hordris: Saruman
Lord Fear: Sauron
Grenaldine: Radagast
Ariadne: Shelob or Ungolliant
Sylvester hands: Golem (Smeagol)
Pickle: Legolas
Aowen: Velda
Bomptous: Gimli
Arwen: Gundrada
Olaf: Boronir in the animated version
Cavern Wights: Barrowites
Glaurung: Red dragon
Smaug: Owen
Ha, I'd forgotten seeing this post before, but I had come to many of the same conclusions (Merlin = Gandalf, Hordriss = Saruman, Grimaldine = Radagast, Fear = Sauron, Ariadne = Shelob etc). I also had Oakley = Treebeard, and I thought the Gruagach would be Morgoth. Red Death seems to be based on Ancalagon the Black, considering what happened to him in the end.
-
Mogdred's name is obviously an allusion to Mordred of Arthurian legend, but I wonder if there's a Tolkien influence in there too. A couple of his evil characters were named Gothmog in the Elvish language, where the Mog part is an adjective meaning 'tyrannous, cruel, oppressive', and the Goth part is a noun meaning 'dread'. So a partial translation gives you 'Dread Mog', as in "Dread Mog who causes all disruption/confusion". Stick the adjective before the noun as we do in English, adjust the spelling for your Camelot reference, and you end up with 'Mogdred'.
-
I thought Legolas was related to Pickle cause they look quite similar to each other.
I'd heard of Lord Of The Rings when i was younger and had no idea of all the mentions of Lord Of The Rings in Knightmare until i found this forum by chance.
I think elves are quite nice.
Read somewhere once that elves can play tricks on humans. So can fairies.
One little question...... You're walking along in your local town... Where you live... On a windy day.... When what looks like a folded ten pound note catches your eye..... A brown ten pound note...... You run away after it and find it has gone under a motor..... You look under the motor to see where the money went..... After bending down and looking underneath you find...... A brown leaf.
The question is...... Have you not been playing attention and chased a simple folded up leaf.... Or is there an elf nearby?
Can elves make their own money out of leaves?
Always keep your wits close and your smarts even closer...... Friends.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login