New Articles Needed: Site and Forum now Linked
-
Great to see so many comments on Facebook re. the jumping the shark article – seems to have polarized opinion nicely!
With 10 years plus of the forum and all those TES articles etc. it’s very difficult to find new things to say about the show, certainly in terms of commentary. In writing my three articles, I suppose my approach has been to try to find new ways of presenting old arguments. It turns out that the ‘jumping the shark’ angle has actually been covered on this very forum, with a thread started in 2006 (Canadanne actually summing up the good/bad points of each series a little over a year ago in a post which would itself form the basis of a good article).
I have mixed feelings about this. Frustration that what I hoped would be new ground is in fact a well worn path. But also relief that I hadn’t spotted that thread until after my own article was published – if I had, I probably wouldn’t have bothered writing it and nobody would be discussing it on FB. At the same time, there is unavoidably an element of diminishing returns. My own view is that it’s probably worth treading the same ground to get more people thinking about KM, to get more people contributing to the debate - to keep KM alive.
I’m also conscious that there can be a fine line between what constitutes a forum post and an ‘article’ – I could just have used the forum for my output. Mystara could perhaps provide some stats on this, but I imagine that more people are likely to read stuff on the main page and comment on FB rather than use the forum? If so, this means that many great forum discussions will only be read by a relatively small number of people; in order to keep the site as dynamic as possible we therefore need a stream of new articles for a wider readership.
I’d be interested to get your views on this – are these articles worth doing? If so, would you have any ideas for a genuinely original article?
I’m also very aware that I’m a relatively new contributor and don’t want to ‘hijack’ the site in any way by bombarding it with my own personal musings! (though I have been an on/off visitor since my first year in uni when I discovered the site in its clara.net incarnation – blimey, 13 years ago!).
-
There are quite a few different numbers but here we go:
A typical Facebook post from us receives several thousand exposures over about one or two days, along with perhaps 15 comments and 100 likes. After a couple of days it stops completely.
An article usually gets a few thousand unique hits, constantly but forever increasing. 10 per day is a good rule of thumb.
We have about 5 active forum contributors, 10 silent readers, 700 accounts, of which 200 have been used in the last 3 or 4 years.
In short, almost nobody reads the forums, which is why I push for people to use the main site more.
-
Has the forum ever been advertised on Facebook? I think a lot of people just don't realise it's here. Heck, I've been aware of Knightmare.com since 2001, but didn't notice there was a forum until 2010!
To HobGoblin, I would definitely say keep writing those articles - I love reading a well-written piece of commentary, even when it relates to a subject that's been discussed in the past.
A typical Facebook post from us receives several thousand exposures over about one or two days, along with perhaps 15 comments and 100 likes. After a couple of days it stops completely.
And therein lies the major drawback of Facebook posts - it's great that lots of people will see them, but they are so ephemeral. A few months down the line, nobody will even be able to re-read the comments that were left, let alone join in the discussion. That's what I like about the forum - the posts are here forever and can be easily revisited at any time.
-
I didn't realise there was a forum til August last year! Was aware of Knightmare.com long before that. Alan, have you tried to contact Challenge TV via facebook or twitter to see if they could allow you to promote the website and maybe the forum?
-
Firstly, I have just asked Challenge about some promotion for the site and forum. We'll see if that amounts to anything. If not, I might simply start mentioning it in all of their posts about Knightmare.
Secondly, you're absolutely right about Facebook posts being ephemeral. Facebook have tried to change that by the use of "discussions", but in practice nobody actually uses Facebook that way. People comment on status updates, and that's about it.
Thirdly, I think the forum has better exposure than it's had in the past. However, it's still something that we need to improve on.
One problem is that many people are scared away by how hugely disorganised and cumbersome the forum is. Looking at the topic of a thread tells you very little about what you might find within it. Previous incarnations of the forum necessitated big threads that people were encouraged to update (e.g. "News relating to actor X"). However, in practice, these are very very difficult for new people to traverse or to search.
Hence, there's a great deal of information here in the forums which is, to all intents and purposes, "lost". New people either won't bother, or won't know to look for it.
Hence my pleas for people to post news to the main site, and to consider converting their threads into articles, where they'll get much bigger viewership
Fourthly, we are trying to integrate the main site, forum, Facebook and twitter more closely. Recently, we added a new module that automatically posts knightmare.com articles to Facebook and twitter. However, it's not quite working right yet. I'd also like to modify this module so that it automatically adds a thread in the forum and links the forum to the main article. However, that's time consuming.
I'm also still hoping to add a medal system. The icons are done, but it needs some programming. My hope is that this would encourage people to become more involved in the main site (which lots of people see) as opposed to the forum (which very few people see). Again, it's something that's time consuming to do.
-
I wanted to add some apologies here. Firstly, for the proof-reading issue at the end of last year. I would normally have been delegated that sort of task, until I went underground in a sordid job-degree two-timing mission. For sure, I'll be glad to reprise that role.
I've also had plans for little projects that, for one reason or another, haven't been fulfilled. For some of these, I suspect, the moment has passed. Some may yet be possible. And, encouragingly, some have emerged that could not have been foreseen before.
An example of the latter: one of my colleagues here at Leicester has been working on Knightmare as part of her doctoral thesis on the representation of fantasy in children's television from the 1950s to 1994. I'm very much hoping to encourage her to pen a contribution for the site (for where better than here?)
I honestly don't believe that the 'stock' of Knightmare is exhausted yet by any means. But as Alex and Chris have both rightly insinuated, it's more of a challenge now to be innovative than it once was. There's value in taking time and care to make contributions worthy.
It's been a decent 12 months for Knightmare, all considered, and I'm convinced that this can be met with new content. The timing has just been a little frustrating. I definitely look forward to helping out more once the civil war with my 80,000 word thesis is finally over (and hopefully without any beheading. Crumbs, even Knightmare didn't succumb to a formal execution. Imagine...!)
-
Would there be value in careful curation of the forum i.e. are there threads worth turning into articles to ensure a wider readership? Are there a number of 'key talking points' that should be on the main site? I’m happy to help in consolidating discussions into formal articles – where appropriate, authorship could be attributed to the knightmare.com community (or similar)…
Off the top of my head, there could be a series of for/against articles on various aspects of the show (which could be nicely labelled as the powers that be/the opposition). Anyway, comments on the worth of this approach from long-standing forum members please!
KaM said:
I honestly don't believe that the 'stock' of Knightmare is exhausted yet by any means. But as Alex and Chris have both rightly insinuated, it's more of a challenge now to be innovative than it once was. There's value in taking time and care to make contributions worthy.
Absolutely. Though I feel inclined to add that in the context of ‘fan stuff’ we shouldn’t limit ourselves to Pulitzer Prize winning criticism . There needs to be a balance between site activity and innovation.
-
Yes.
In my original post, I asked people to look at their forum postings and contact me if they thought it would make a good article.
Unfortunately, nobody did. Sadly, therefore, there are a huge number of articles that have been seen by a mere 25 people, rather than 25,000.
I'm not entirely comfortable merely converting peoples' posts into articles, though I suppose there isn't a good reason to do so. We could always email people and ask them, but even if they answer, this is another time consuming job to be carried out.
-
FYI, challenge did get back to me, and said:
"I know we aren't allowed to promote third party websites on air but maybe we could direct people to our website and our Knightmare page then put a link to your site on there? Our website guy is off until Thursday so I'll discuss with him :-)"
So hopefully, there'll be something on the horizon.
-
FYI, challenge did get back to me, and said:
"I know we aren't allowed to promote third party websites on air but maybe we could direct people to our website and our Knightmare page then put a link to your site on there? Our website guy is off until Thursday so I'll discuss with him :-)"
So hopefully, there'll be something on the horizon.
Sounds positive. Hope this can raise awareness of the site and forum.
-
Has the forum ever been advertised on Facebook? I think a lot of people just don't realise it's here. Heck, I've been aware of Knightmare.com since 2001, but didn't notice there was a forum until 2010!
The forum was advertised on Facebook last year - on the 17th of November to mark its own 10th anniversary! Alas, the post made to promote the forum only received 20 likes; below what is now considered to be the norm of 100.
-
how hugely disorganised ... the forum is.
I must admit to finding that sentiment a trifle disheartening, as someone who has invested a great deal of time in endeavouring to make the forum much more navigable and organised than it would otherwise have been. At one point, before its threads were tidied, General Discussion was 60 pages deep. Also, the Episode Discussion section, which seems to be regaining some of its erstwhile popularity for obvious reasons, has all its threads logically titled as well as a guide thread, with links, that also lists teams. So our castle isn't entirely ramshackle.
One problem is that many people are scared away by how hugely disorganised and cumbersome the forum is. Looking at the topic of a thread tells you very little about what you might find within it. Previous incarnations of the forum necessitated big threads that people were encouraged to update (e.g. "News relating to actor X"). However, in practice, these are very very difficult for new people to traverse or to search.
The Knightmare.com Forum is what it is: a repository of nearly 11 years' worth of continuous and often spontaneous posting on a subject about which there is an awful lot to say. Being awed by that is understandable; being scared by it is something I have limited sympathy for. Now, as then, any newcomer who introduces him/herself to the forum is warmly welcomed; queries are answered swiftly, knowledgeably and gladly. When a newer member recently enquired about what the KM cast are up to nowadays, as well he might, one of us told him. There was no suggestion that he should be trawling long threads to find the answer himself. Active forum contributors may be in short supply but it is a definite case of quality over quantity. I hope that all of this forum's contributors will continue to feel valued here, regardless of anything else.
I'm inclined to think that the low forum activity is a reflection of a wider shift away from forums and blogs towards social networking sites. I suspect that a lot of the people who want to talk about Knightmare (or about anything for that matter) aren't choosy about where they do so or how impermanent it is; so if they happen to be on Facebook or Twitter or YouTube anyway then that's where they give voice. People are increasingly used to getting little more than passive acknowledgement (a like or a favourite) for their efforts: if they came here and got thoughtful responses consisting of words in paragraphs, I'm not sure they'd know what to do.
I'd be interested to get your views on this – are these articles worth doing? If so, would you have any ideas for a genuinely original article?
Expressing yourself as a Knightmare fan via any available channel is always worth doing. As for genuinely original articles: fresh interviews with cast, contestants and crew are always a possibility.
Some of the people who find the urge to write at length (and write well) about Knightmare would prefer to it in their own blogs, and that's understandable.
I honestly don't believe that the 'stock' of Knightmare is exhausted yet by any means. But as Alex and Chris have both rightly insinuated, it's more of a challenge now to be innovative than it once was.
Is that why one of them has changed his name? Welcome back, by the way.
I'm not entirely comfortable merely converting peoples' posts into articles, though I suppose there isn't a good reason to do so.
In fact, there is at least one precedent for this, though the thread in question lent itself quite naturally to the conversion.
There's a phrase that Alan has used three times on this page, and that phrase is 'time consuming'. There's no getting away from this problem: none of the paths is short, and those of us who've already invested great amounts of time in keeping the Dunshelm fires burning online are fully entitled to wonder, with no disrespect to Knightmare, how possible, fulfilling and fruitful further large investments of our time will be.
I've been trying recently on Twitter to draw attention to the forum. I mentioned our 'dreams about Knightmare' thread to @ChallengeTV; I suggested to @KnightmareLive that they join in with our 'Knightmare Live' thread, providing links in both cases. (If our newest member PaulTreguard is Paul Flannery of Knightmare Live, welcome and good luck!) I will continue to look out for more opportunities like those.
Would there be value in careful curation of the forum i.e. are there threads worth turning into articles to ensure a wider readership?
I'm coming up to my 10th anniversary as a Knightmare Forum user. Perhaps I'll put together an article for Knightmare.com that highlights the threads I've enjoyed and admired the most. I may also review my old posts and Lexicon entries for a similar purpose. Beyond that, I don't know how comfortable I'd be with other people harvesting my posts for articles. Most of my Knightmare writing is, first and foremost, for my own pleasure, and in many ways I'm happier with it having a more select readership.
-
how hugely disorganised ... the forum is.
I must admit to finding that sentiment a trifle disheartening, as someone who has invested a great deal of time in endeavouring to make the forum much more navigable and organised than it would otherwise have been. At one point, before its threads were tidied, General Discussion was 60 pages deep. Also, the Episode Discussion section, which seems to be regaining some of its erstwhile popularity for obvious reasons, has all its threads logically titled as well as a guide thread, with links, that also lists teams. So our castle isn't entirely ramshackle.
Yes, I perhaps spoke in haste.
Let me add then, what a monumentally massive improvement the forum organisation is over what it WAS
One problem is that many people are scared away by how hugely disorganised and cumbersome the forum is. Looking at the topic of a thread tells you very little about what you might find within it. Previous incarnations of the forum necessitated big threads that people were encouraged to update (e.g. "News relating to actor X"). However, in practice, these are very very difficult for new people to traverse or to search.
The Knightmare.com Forum is what it is: a repository of nearly 11 years' worth of continuous and often spontaneous posting on a subject about which there is an awful lot to say. Being awed by that is understandable; being scared by it is something I have limited sympathy for. Now, as then, any newcomer who introduces him/herself to the forum is warmly welcomed; queries are answered swiftly, knowledgeably and gladly. When a newer member recently enquired about what the KM cast are up to nowadays, as well he might, one of us told him. There was no suggestion that he should be trawling long threads to find the answer himself. Active forum contributors may be in short supply but it is a definite case of quality over quantity. I hope that all of this forum's contributors will continue to feel valued here, regardless of anything else.
Perhaps. But for the one person who does that, there might be 50 others that get scared away.
Heck, I'm scared by some of the threads.
As you say, that's partly because it's 11 years of continuous and spontaneous posting. It's also because there's been a bit of a shift in forum capabilities over time.
I think it is also because there's never really been much of a push for people to post in a particular way and never (to my knowledge) any correction when people post in an incorrect manner - for example, by going off topic as we're doing here
I'm not entirely comfortable merely converting peoples' posts into articles, though I suppose there isn't a good reason to do so.
In fact, there is at least one precedent for this, though the thread in question lent itself quite naturally to the conversion.
Erk. Slight typo from me there. I meant to say "there isn't a good reason not to do so". Damn double negatives.
It's good to know there's a precedent. However, the nature of that thread lends itself quite well to conversion. A sprawling thread with side comments, questions, "LOLs" and so on, doesn't do so well. In the first instance, I'd prefer that people volunteer. In time, as perhaps we get more time, I might feel differently
There's a phrase that Alan has used three times on this page, and that phrase is 'time consuming'. There's no getting away from this problem: none of the paths is short, and those of us who've already invested great amounts of time in keeping the Dunshelm fires burning online are fully entitled to wonder, with no disrespect to Knightmare, how possible, fulfilling and fruitful further large investments of our time will be.
I've been trying recently on Twitter to draw attention to the forum. I mentioned our 'dreams about Knightmare' thread to @ChallengeTV; I suggested to @KnightmareLive that they join in with our 'Knightmare Live' thread, providing links in both cases. (If our newest member PaulTreguard is Paul Flannery of Knightmare Live, welcome and good luck!) I will continue to look out for more opportunities like those.
Certainly seconded. Personally I'm fairly busy with AQ at the moment, which is at a fairly critical stage. I have a massive amount of work in order to get that off the ground, although my hope is that once it's going, it'll take less work to keep it going.
I'd then hope to be able to spend some time giving the forum some love.
Would there be value in careful curation of the forum i.e. are there threads worth turning into articles to ensure a wider readership?
I'm coming up to my 10th anniversary as a Knightmare Forum user. Perhaps I'll put together an article for Knightmare.com that highlights the threads I've enjoyed and admired the most. I may also review my old posts and Lexicon entries for a similar purpose. Beyond that, I don't know how comfortable I'd be with other people harvesting my posts for articles. Most of my Knightmare writing is, first and foremost, for my own pleasure, and in many ways I'm happier with it having a more select readership.
[/quote]THe difficulty with that, of course, is that in having written it, your writings are a source of research for people who do write articles.
-
Perhaps this all comes down to the question of what is knightmare.com trying to achieve? Why was there a request for new articles? Is the site merely a place for existing KM fans to come and chew the fat or is it trying to promote the show and expand the fanbase? What are the site’s objectives re. traffic, interactivity etc?
If we can come up with a satisfactory answer to the ‘so what?’ question then perhaps a strategy can be developed to take the site forward in an appropriate direction (and maybe this will lead to a decision that things are fine as they are).
Gosh, all this talk of ‘strategy’ and ‘objectives’ sounds very formal but hopefully you understand what I’m trying to say. I appreciate that a fan site run by volunteers is unlikely to have a sophisticated governance model .
I think Drassil is correct in saying that people have moved on from traditional forums to social media. These days, people expect things to come to them and, with busy timelines constantly being updated with new information, competition for attention is fierce. The recent request for a rebuttal article to my jump the shark piece probably wasn’t seen by many because the original article had already been buried under a landslide of other people’s status updates.
Even if people comment on FB articles they probably don’t expect a response (and most probably don’t even check to see if any further comments are made). It’s also interesting to see how many very brief comments are made via mobile phone – this is a very superficial form of engagement. It was nice seeing a few comments of multiple sentences on my jump the shark article, though I suspect a significant number of those commenting had actually read nothing more than the article’s title.
Then again, thousands of people being exposed to a KM article inherently feels like a positive thing. So perhaps FB is good for exposure but not so good for discussion. It comes back to – does any of this matter?!
Anyway, we’ll see if a link on Challenge’s website sends a few more people this way...
-
FYI, challenge did get back to me, and said:
"I know we aren't allowed to promote third party websites on air but maybe we could direct people to our website and our Knightmare page then put a link to your site on there? Our website guy is off until Thursday so I'll discuss with him :-)"
So hopefully, there'll be something on the horizon.
I see Challenge have now promoted the site and forum on their Facebook page!
-
In the last month I've seen two tweets about new articles on Knightmare.com, but the links have led to 404 errors. Are the articles supposed to be visible, or were the tweets premature?
http://twitter.com/Knightmare_CITV/status/406775674121498624
http://twitter.com/Knightmare_CITV/status/417454271131840512
-
The Lee Gunnell article was deleted after it received complaints.
The other one I'm less sure about, but I suspect it's since been reclassified, moved, or deleted. I don't think there's any way to update a tweet with revised addresses once it's been made.
-
The other one I'm less sure about, but I suspect it's since been reclassified, moved, or deleted. I don't think there's any way to update a tweet with revised addresses once it's been made.
This was due to a clerical error when I submitted the article. I became aware of this almost immediately, and unpublished the article so that further work could be done on it, but I was too late to stop the automatic tweet having been triggered. With any luck the article will be published properly before the end of the day, given that it's a look back at the past year.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login