The new KM episode is up!
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Overall, I have mixed feelings from this one-off special. It shows that a modern-day Knightmare could work, but at times the tone of the original show seems to be lost and it comes across a bit spoofy at times.
The first thing we notice is the opening titles. They’ve used the Series 6-8 opening, but it’s interesting to spot the omission of the sound effect when the dragon ‘spurts out’ the dungeoneer.
The CGI antechamber is a poor replacement for the real thing and doesn’t look very convincing. I understand they didn’t have time to build one though, so fair enough! If more Knightmare was to be made, I would hope that they would build one.
The episode didn’t get off to the best of starts, to be honest. I didn’t really like the introduction at all and the pantomime-type behaviour made it appear ‘spoofy’ from the offset, which didn’t really encourage us to take the whole thing seriously! Getting the team members to act beyond the capacity of just being a dungeoneer and advisors does not come across well. The whole situation also meant that we didn’t get the classic ‘Enter Stranger’ moment. The REFRESH thing with Treguard was also unnecessary, pantomime and rather stupid. Also – since when did spellcasting need a wand?
Isy Suttie does a fair job at playing Veruca/Daisy though and I wouldn’t mind seeing more of her. The costume is also rather good and I like her backstory.
Hugo Myatt is brilliant as ever, of course. I think Treguard should have explained about taking only 2 objects at any one time and explained the life force (which pops up later in the quest). It would be quite tricky for a first-time viewer to know what was going on! Another thing of note – where is the advisors’ note taking equipment?
The new portal noise is weird.
The CGI rooms in the dungeon don’t look too bad and the card room did its job nicely as a simple starter.
The CGI re-creation of the old Level 1 clue room looked a little odd! I’m not sure about Sylvester the Jester – he seems a little flat as a jester, although I can see where they’re going with trying to have a more ambiguous jester. He does speak in rhymes though, which is a nice touch.
It was strange to see the Level 3 clue room make an appearance as the Level 1 clue room!
It’s good to see the old life force clock back in a similar form, but it seems less prominent than it was in Knightmare’s early years – the heartbeat has been removed and we don’t see it being replenished when food is put in the knapsack.
It’s great to see Clifford Barry as Lissard and Mark Knight as Lord Fear back. Lord Fear’s den looks visually very pleasing – the more realistic of the lot and looks like artwork from David Rowe! I don’t really like the idea of Lord Fear’s ‘new communicator’ though. Lord Fear throwing a fireball is a nice touch though.
I don’t know how the team decided to take the bauble and the key – they didn’t seem to reject the Downer at all! There didn’t seem to be any clue to do so either.
They seemed to react to the spider before it appeared! It’s good to see Ariadne again but it was MUCH more satisfying when they used a real spider.
The situation in the next room was a little confusing – there didn’t really seem to be any need to cast the spell as the exit was clear anyway. It would have made more sense just to make it for the door. It’s a shame that the letters don’t appear on screen when the spell is cast.
Sylvester didn’t seem to get much out of the bargain as he threw the bauble away! Level 1 seemed rather short, but I guess that’s because this is a special and there is limited time.
Theodora Snitch seems like an interesting character – a sort of cross between Elita and Stiletta. I like the concept of the character and I think there’s a lot they could do with her.
Odd to see the Level 1 wellway room become the Level 2 clue room! The first of two Knightmare VR references sneaks into the spyglass scene – it sounds like Lord Fear is talking to Garstang, the orc who hosted the Knightmare VR pilot. The spyglass scene ended quite abruptly – there was no instruction for Stuart to put the spyglass down. The film seems to jump suddenly at 22:53 – a blatant editing error!
I don’t really like the new goblin horn sound effect.
The ‘Slice Me Dice Me’ from Knightmare VR is back! Although I think that Knightmare VR was awful in almost every aspect, I don’t mind the idea of having a floor puzzle like this in the show. I hope I didn’t hear Daisy swear at 21:16! The scroll clue was rather subtle, so well done to the team for figuring out the word.
The team’s downfall was not communicating to Stuart that he had to make a big jump before he made it. It looked like a massive jump to make though! Shame there was no death bong to signal the death and it was nice to hear Treguard’s ‘ooh nasty’ again, even though it took him a while to say it!
It seemed convenient for the team to die at this point and make a suitable length episode. If the team had got further would we have simply been given a longer episode? We see a further room in the credits though (a gargoyle room by the look of it) – maybe we’d have seen that in the quest.
Why did Treguard feel the need to say ‘Dismiss’ after spelling out its letters?
The ending seemed to suggest the possibility of further Knightmare being made. Treguard’s ‘it’s only a game, isn’t it?’ was a suitably atmospheric way to finish off the episode.
Interesting to see the use of the Series 1-3 music for the credits, despite starting with the 6-8 music. Weird that the music was cut short though.
Overall, I think it’s not a bad job at all at paying homage to the original show (I feel more positive about it after a second watching, actually) and it also shows that a modern-day Knightmare could work well if done properly. The show is definitely best with kids though – as adults this team appears more confident and it makes it feel more spoof-like, which affects the tone of the show. Emma seemed to take it the most seriously out of all of them. Also, there are just lots of small things that make it feel less like Knightmare that have been changed – even if is just things like sound effects, scrolls and spells not being on screen etc.
The episode showed that there is great potential for a new Knightmare if they do it right. It was certainly not bad, but not brilliant either.
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Overall, I have mixed feelings from this one-off special. It shows that a modern-day Knightmare could work, but at times the tone of the original show seems to be lost and it comes across a bit spoofy at times.
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The episode didn’t get off to the best of starts, to be honest. I didn’t really like the introduction at all and the pantomime-type behaviour made it appear ‘spoofy’ from the offset, which didn’t really encourage us to take the whole thing seriously! Getting the team members to act beyond the capacity of just being a dungeoneer and advisors does not come across well. The whole situation also meant that we didn’t get the classic ‘Enter Stranger’ moment. The REFRESH thing with Treguard was also unnecessary, pantomime and rather stupid.
Agreed with all of the above, especially Treguard's Theoden moment.
It’s good to see the old life force clock back in a similar form, but it seems less prominent than it was in Knightmare’s early years – the heartbeat has been removed and we don’t see it being replenished when food is put in the knapsack.
Also, I can kind of see why they put the head straight on the dungeon background, but it meant there was no green/amber/red indicator to go with it.
I don’t know how the team decided to take the bauble and the key – they didn’t seem to reject the Downer at all! There didn’t seem to be any clue to do so either.
I wonder about that a touch... they'd been told to take the bauble by Sylvester in the Olgarth room, so it was between the "downer" and the key... and if they got to the lift with the "downer", what price there'd have been no keyhole, and they would have been told to sprinkle it around to make the lift go down?
The film seems to jump suddenly at 22:53 – a blatant editing error!
There were two jump-cuts - one in the Lord Fear scene, and one with the advisors shortly afterward. The latter was particularly jarring - surely they could have cut to the dungeon view for a moment to cover it?
Why did Treguard feel the need to say ‘Dismiss’ after spelling out its letters?
Verucca and Emma both said the word after spelling REFRESH and IGNITE earlier, ja? Perhaps it's connected to not having the letters appear on-screen.
Overall, I think it’s not a bad job at all at paying homage to the original show...
It felt like Red Dwarf: Back to Earth to me - the pieces were there, but mixed up and in with stuff that wasn't a great idea. Hopefully, if there's a series to follow, then as with RDX they'd work on the tone more.
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Ok, this was obviously a slightly ramshackle production with very little development time so I don’t want to be too hard on it. I won’t mention the dodgy editing, clumsy room transitions, disappointing use of the lifeforce animation (not even during the death?!) or occasional suspect graphic. I certainly won’t be pretentious enough to talk about Ariadne getting lost in the uncanny valley.
I agree with others here that the tone was just a bit too knowing and I didn’t really like the team (but then there were always teams which rubbed you up the wrong way) - did they have to make them too cool for pads and pencils? Treguard was a little subdued – I don’t know if Hugo was in character as having just woken up after a two decade sleep or what…?
I do have to mention the opening 5 minutes which were pretty awful and totally unnecessary – why not just have Treguard say “You took your time, thought you’d gone for good…blah blah…enter stranger” and we’re straight into the action. I was having what I believe Star Wars fans call a Phantom Menace moment at this point!
However….
I thought that generally the dungeon looked good (pleased to see Dave Rowe credited with the graphic design) and it was quite a thrill seeing some old rooms. I thought the new characters served their purpose well. Although this particular quest was a bit talky for my taste and I would have preferred some more navigational challenges, it was still watchable because the underlying format is so great. I can complain about little details – the goblin and the horn sound effect, the lack of wall monster – but fundamentally it was still Knightmare.
If this was being presented as series 9, episode 1 then I’d be very disappointed. But it isn’t – it’s a curio, a dvd extra type of production and on those terms I quite enjoyed it. It’s a demo which shows potential.
Here’s hoping it leads to bigger and better things.
P.S. Isy’s F bomb – were they just unable to edit this out? Can’t think why this would be intentional unless they were trying to create a YouTube comment talking point…
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Ooh ooh ooh! I have a question!!! Am I allowed to do a commentary of this episode? Because I REEEEEEEEEEEEALLY wanna do one!!! (I sound like some little kid wanting to be chosen to go on stage in a pantomime XDDD)
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Here's my thoughts, for what they're worth, after the first watch.
I really enjoyed it!
The biggest downfall was it did seem slightly awkward. I don't think Treguard knows quite how to handle adults!
I'm not sure it can come back on a large scale; Knbightmare is not Doctor Who, and no one but Hugo should ever be Treguard in 'real' onscreen Knightmare, IMHO (much as I love a lot of the alternate Treguards), and I'm not sure it can/should be done with a new team; with the best will in the world, I can't see either Tim or Hugo wanting to do a two or three year run, but I think there's the potential there for a 'swansong' series.
The graphics looked great, IMO; just old school enough to be recognisably 'Knightmare', but not too flash/WoW/Rift-y.
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I really rather enjoyed the episode. Veruca/Daisy's intro was a little off but once Treguard appeared it was fine. It felt nice to spend 26 minutes watching something I used to watch, and I'd gladly watch more if they made it. Like Fluttermoth says a swan song series
The F bomb was a surprise and it is quite well hidden in the mix, I actually expected Treguard to chide her for it.
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For me:-
Good points:
It was great to see Hugo Myatt, Mark Knight and Cliff Barry back in their roles after what seems and feels like an age. I just felt that Isy's performance was a bit on the wooden side (and I didn't expect her to say "what the fuck is it (or was that)??"
Although Ashen made a great dungeoneer, I didn't click with the team, and it came across a bit too comical for me.
The best looking environment was probably Lord Fear's mount fear room. Unfortunately the same can't be said for the other rooms which tbh looked extremely basic (even rooms from series 8 knightmare looked better) and had mismatched textures. This was mostly apparent in Treguard's ante-chamber where the brick walls didn't match/line up, and a flat bitmap was used for the fireplace. After looking at it twice, it could have been intentional to make the rooms look a bit old school/naff. Don't even get me started on those MS paint cobwebs
I felt things did improve towards the end, but the episode felt like it was a bit too rushed (evidenced by a couple of jump cuts (one being where Lord Fear talked about Ashen's weapon which them abrtuply cut (I'm guessing they must've had a good laugh at that line), and tbh I think had they asked the KM community for help, that I dare say people would've jumped at the chance to help and make it look better.
I hope this opens up new avenues for Knightmare, but don't feel that the opportunity that was given was used to it's fullest.
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For the record, Isy Suttie does not swear in the episode.
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For the record, Isy Suttie does not swear in the episode.
She didn't? Then who did? I don't think Emma did, so was it someone on the crew?
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Not saying nuffink.
Isy is a professional and playing a scripted character.
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...and Phil was really clever to figure out the clue to spell out thief.
Wait, why did I put thief?! My apologies, that should say "feet" XDDD
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...and Phil was really clever to figure out the clue to spell out thief.
Wait, why did I put thief?! My apologies, that should say "feet" XDDD
I did notice there were a lot of potential words in there; 'star', 'fear', 'step', amongst others.
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Hi guys. Long time Knightmare fan here, just joined the boards and made a first post in the newbies section! I have a lot to say about this new episode and do agree with some of the things you guys are saying, but I might be a different type of fan since I preferred the later series of the show (controversial maybe?) But I will get into that tomorrow when I get home from work and draught a better response.
For now though just let me join you in rejoicing in the fact that I just watched a NEW Knightmare episode for the first time in over 15 years!!
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OK: some notes on the reprised Knightmare.
Google didn't want us to show them what a new show would look like, and although they wanted the players to be adult geeks, they were hooked on nostalgia, They also wanted me to take full advantage of two new members of cast who were brought in by them at no small expense. Actually I thought both new girls were excellent.
When it became clear that we had neither the time nor cash to rebuild the live set, I opted for a virtual one as the only choice. We had no time in which to build anything more than basic, so to conceal its deficiencies I packed the opening with a few special effects (like Treguard's transformation) to 'busy' things up. Unfortunately this had the side-effect of slowing things down, and the front of the programme lacked pace. For those of you who remember the Knighmares of the 80s with the aid of 19 years worth of rose-tinted glasses, I would remind you that those programmes often had less pace than a tortoise.
Setting the game difficulty level for a team of highly intelligent adults (no matter what some of you thought of them - they were just that), was also problematic. And I thought we got that about right. Few of the best children's teams would have survived the 18 odd minutes of game-play we threw at them, let alone the scenes you did not see. They coped faultlessly with most of the logic puzzles, and were cruising towards a point when we were planning to freeze time and give them an honourable draw, when they suddenly did something quite silly and killed off their dungeoneer. The credit for this goes to 'Slice Me Dice Me' simply one of the best puzzles we've ever used in Knightmare, and one which also offers immense flexibility and genuine threat.
This team of adults were so intimidated by the giant blades that they neglected to 'shuffle' Stuart to the edge of his 'safe' pallet, from which point the jump to the next causeway was practical.
Given the unexpected bonus of a dramatic ending to the show, I then had to chop seven minutes from the adventure scenario in order to accommodate it, and I don't regret doing so, even if some of the edits did inevitable telegraph themselves even to an inexpert audience. Losing a couple of strategic cut-aways to a software glitz when encoding, didn't help either.
It was interesting and intriguing pitching game at adults, the more so because there is little chance in today's market for Knightmare re-emerging as a children’s show. Neither is it likely to re-appear in a half hour format, because today even game-show formats eschew this, and a dramatised adventure game of any ambition will need more time and space to breath.
The short form also renders them financially prohibitive.
I understand why some of you felt moved to criticise, but believe me when I claim pre-eminence in the matter of criticism. Although I’m saddened that some of you didn’t like the new show, it doesn’t particularly surprise me. It wasn’t made only for you, but to address the demands of a commercial client who had their own legitimate agenda, and no vested interest in the future or otherwise of the format.
TC
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I will post more detailed thoughts later on, but the death was hilarious, especially Treguard's line "Stuart has reached Level 3, but not in the way he intended" - LMAO!
Btw, I thought Daisy had said the F-word for a moment too, but I rewound it to check and she clearly says "heck"!
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Thanks for the insights, Tim - I hope I speak for the vast majority though when I say that by and large we're thrilled that you've been able to bring us any new Knightmare of any form - any nitpicking is just that; as geeks, and as people with a large emotional investment in and familiarity with the show, we're always going to be looking at it far more critically than the casual viewers - I've seen nothing but excellent feedback among my 'regular' friends who have seen it!
Whether it turns out to be a last hurrah or a new beginning, thanks for resurrecting the Greater Game one more time
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Upon seening this episode a 2nd time I warmed to it more, granted I wasn't too keen on the first few minutes or some of the advisors trying to make it about them, I thought The dungeoneer was great and he really took the role seriously, lord fear, treguard, lissard were all great same with the new assistant.
It was great and hopefully if this does well enough it'll have a series again ( I'm still kicking Myself for not going to Norwich studios a few weeks ago to say hello to Hugo and Knight, if I get another chance I'll definetly show that fanart) & more then anything I'd definetly love to be on this show (as a dungeoneer, My younger brother and older brother were big fans of the series as well growing up, maybe it's still a pipedream but if I ever got the chance and if it could happen I'd gladly do it), just like everyone else here it would be a great honor to meet the mm cast, Tim childs.
Tim: All I can say is thanks for bringing km back for this revival, it's like it never left & it's something the world needs more of today (same with crystal maze) & Hugo still show's he knows how to scare the bejesus out of you (at the end of the episode), km was something I loved as a kid and still do, like blackadder it's got a real timeless feel, I really enjoyed the slice em dice em room as well, looks like the team should've got the dungeoneer further back from the ledge before jumping.
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I watched it before I went to work this morning...
It's a little depressing to consider how the average watcher has gone from running home from school to watch a fresh episode of Knightmare to fitting it in before a 9-to-5. Time goes by and not all of us wear the past 19 years as lightly as Hugo Myatt! On the other hand, the idea of having something new and Knightmarish at breakfast time reminds me of going to play Bamboozle on Teletext one morning and finding a Knightmare game in its place.
"REFRESH" seemed like a good nod to the importance of computer graphics and video games to the genesis of Knightmare. Presumably it broke whatever spell Lord Fear had cast over Treguard to make him look so decrepit and tired. The 11th Doctor regenerating into the 12th Doctor will be hard pushed to follow the 1st Treguard regenerating into the 1st Treguard.
Treguard, if Knightmare returns again, please amend the Adventurer's Code to forbid visible underwear in the antechamber. And please, give us that stare at the end of the episodes, not just Daisy!
I like the way that some of the CGI rooms recreated particular hand-painted rooms from Series 1-3. (The unused wall monster room is also the one in which the Knightmare Live actors were photographed.) I also liked the idea of Ariadne making an entire level her lair and stalking intruders, which harked back to Series 4.
The new characters all have potential. Knightmare already had a Sylvester, complete with "Sylvester the -ester" jokes, so I wish the jester had been given a different name. Chester, Hester, Fester ("Shuddup, Fester!" etc). I liked Treguard's mentions of the previous jesters, something that Knightmare Live also does.
Lissard was never my favourite character, and I'm afraid Geek Week Knightmare didn't change that. I'd have enjoyed seeing Cliff Barry reprise Brother Strange: it would have been fun hearing the team settle on a proverb or perhaps make one up.
My favourite part of the episode was Lord Fear's comment at the end of the first spyglass scene. Noticing the satire in Knightmare is one of the aspects that makes it adult-worthy.
The team could have got further if they hadn't missed the short cut to Level 3. Did you spot it from the sidelines as they were going along, Alan?
I'm glad that Slice Me Dice Me got another outing. The team seemed to make the same judgement error that Scott's team made in Series 3: they jumped when they could have taken a long step. But I'm impressed that they had worked out the correct route.
Thank you to everyone involved with this, and good luck with whatever you do next.
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The team could have got further if they hadn't missed the short cut to Level 3. Did you spot it from the sidelines as they were going along, Alan?
Indeed. I believe the team actually took the short cut to level 3 though? >:-]
I'm glad that Slice Me Dice Me got another outing. The team seemed to make the same judgement error that Scott's team made in Series 3: they jumped when they could have taken a long step. But I'm impressed that they had worked out the correct route.
While Slice Me Dice Me was being set up, I recall deciding that it's a VERY hard room. Taking a long step when you're blindfolded is tricky, but possible. You can, after all, extend your leg across and then transfer your body over if your leg is in the right place. Jumping is another matter entirely. While blindfolded, you can't even tell how far you're about to jump, let alone how far you've actually jumped, because you lose all sense of relative location when your feet leave the floor. Having to jump the correct distance several times is, therefore, extremely hard.
However, I'm not entirely convinced that a long step was possible here. The distance looks too great to do it safely. Remember that if you overbalance in taking a long step, you'll lean forward and your extended leg hits the floor. If it's in the pit, you fall.
Add the difficulty of the axes, which seems to discourage a team from slowly taking a long step, and I think you have the making of a very hard room. The team's reaction to the axes, though, is priceless
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