Online episodes
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Given that the BBC has an annual income if £3.5 billion from the licence fee it is stating the obvious to say it could afford to produce KM if it didn't produce other things. But let's not lose sight of the fact that the BBC is a public service and what it chooses to produce is based on an extremely complicated range of factors designed to ensure value for money for the licence fee payer is maximised. Each slot on each channel is carefully planned to reach particular age groups, socio-economic groups etc. It has to balance each of its three core purposes of entertaining, educating and informing. Making a profit is not a consideration.
Thinking about a BBC KM, we should think about similar shows which target similar audiences. I've said before that the BBC One Sat night fantasy, family slot might work - think Dr Who. Merlin...
These are v expensive shows however and are co funded by the BBCs commercial arm. BBC Worldwide is prepared to invest in such productions because they make a lot of money overseas, especially in America.
KM could be such a brand with the right support but, frankly, its a long shot.
But just because the BBC has cash don't assume it fan spend money on whatever it likes - it is subject to a robust regulatory framework and strict public service targets/objectives.
For what its worth I personally think KM, being a cerebral show with family appeal, could fit into that framework somewhere.
Nice summary, as always, Mr HobGoblin
I'd be inclined to agree that the "BBC One Sat night fantasy, family slot" as you've called it, might work. The only thing I'd note is that the shows that usually occupy this slot would appear to be pure dramatisations versus the gameshow/dramatisation hybrid that is Knightmare. Additionally, do you think that Knightmare lends itself to overseas sales? Personally, I'm struggling to see the US networks accepting a UK gameshow showing British people. Furthermore, would Knightmare survive dubbing in the same way that, e.g. Merlin might?
I'm sure there's an article in there somewhere
Oh! Oh! Someone should try dubbing Chevalier!
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I'd be inclined to agree that the "BBC One Sat night fantasy, family slot" as you've called it, might work. The only thing I'd note is that the shows that usually occupy this slot would appear to be pure dramatisations versus the gameshow/dramatisation hybrid that is Knightmare.
Mind you, gameshows and quizzes of various kinds are also a major element of BBC1's Saturday evening schedule, so a programme that appeals to the gameshow audience AND the fantasy audience could sit fairly comfortably there...
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Yes, very true.
Maybe it would even pull in more audiences than any single one type of show would? Hard to say since, I don't believe there's anything quite like the hybrid of Knightmare except other Tim Child shows
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But it depends on how much it would cost to produce, I would guess it's cost is cheaper then Merlin or Doctor who. For a 'game show' it's expensive but then it's so much more than a game show.
It's certainly not out of the realms of possibility, . As I said before on post that's been deleted, Tim had worked with the bbc in the past Time Busters was on bbc 2 so they might be quite interested in being part of a Knightmare revival.
I thought id just bring it up for discussing.
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Mystara wrote:
I'm struggling to see the US networks accepting a UK gameshow showing British people.
I agree - US networks do tend to license formats and remake them rather than simply buy the rights to existing series. Still, even that could potentially bankroll a UK version (like 'Dancing with the Stars' is an overseas version of Strictly - over 40 versions exist, all pumping some money back into BBC Worldwide).
Also, without wishing to generalise, it seems the US has a weakness for 'British' style medieval fantasy (some might say due to the fact that the US has no history of its own. Not me of course.)
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LOL
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gameshows and quizzes of various kinds are also a major element of BBC1's Saturday evening schedule, so a programme that appeals to the gameshow audience AND the fantasy audience could sit fairly comfortably there
Saturday night gameshow slot...? I'm suddenly getting disturbing images in my head of KM as the National Lottery supplement, with Treguard handing us over to the Lottery HQ, Dale Winton-style, after every second chamber.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mind you, I have no doubt whatever that the Lottery folks could afford it.
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gameshows and quizzes of various kinds are also a major element of BBC1's Saturday evening schedule, so a programme that appeals to the gameshow audience AND the fantasy audience could sit fairly comfortably there
Saturday night gameshow slot...? I'm suddenly getting disturbing images in my head of KM as the National Lottery supplement, with Treguard handing us over to the Lottery HQ, Dale Winton-style, after every second chamber.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mind you, I have no doubt whatever that the Lottery folks could afford it.
Ha! It would be a bit random but I would love to see that!
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Am I the only one terrified of the prospect of the BBC getting Knightmare?
They're large and powerful, especially with the Worldwide arm (which would certainly provide easy worldwide marketing opportunities, as well as DVD releases), but I fear the BBC would try to slowly seize control over the show itself and heavily influence it's content. A BBC-ised Knightmare, to me, simply wouldn't be Knightmare.
Knightmare has always been a product of ITV, so of course they should have first priority to broadcast a new series, but Challenge has been very kind to the show in giving the original series a platform. I'm wary of Channel 4 and 5, but they are similar enough in nature to ITV for the Knightmare format to fit right.
I just don't want the BBC Director General (or anyone else 'high-up') trying to buy the series flat-out or giving direct orders to the production team concerning length, content or anything else. There's no need to sanitize the show. I've no idea whether there's truly any danger of this, but I am fearful.
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You could say that about a commercial channel as well though. I don't like the idea of advertisers potentially interfering in production either, which could happen too. In the end, any channel that broadcasts the show is the 'customer' of the production team, and so any channel has the potential to interfere.
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Don't see why anyone would be 'terrified' of a BBC produced KM!
ITV would be far more likely to ruin it by making it a celebrity show or something. The sorts of changes the Beeb might make would be to ensure a few black faces in the cast ie positive changes. I dont see why it would sanitize the show - Dr Who can be pretty scary/gruesome. Looking back I'm actually amazed that ITV made such an intelligent show - at its most unforgiving it was basically kids TV's version of Only Connect!
A new KM is always going to be different wherever it ends up as it's highly unlikely to be a children's show and would probably be longer than half an hour an ep. So if you want it to return, accept the principle of change!
That all said, I think it unlikely that ITV would give up the show if they thought it could be successful. Not many shows have transferred from ITV to the BBC - I can think of one - Men Behaving Badly! And ITV gave up on that cos it was awful - the Beeb made it a success by making significant changes.
There's nothing wrong with KM's format so this is unlikely to happen. Unless people can think of shows that were already successful when they moved to the Beeb?
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You could say that about a commercial channel as well though. I don't like the idea of advertisers potentially interfering in production either, which could happen too. In the end, any channel that broadcasts the show is the 'customer' of the production team, and so any channel has the potential to interfere.
I never realized the advertisers really had any pull over the content of the actual shows, though I do understand they can choose which shows they want their products or services to be advertised alongside and occasionally sponsor.
I've always imagined there was a far greater risk that ITV or the majority of satellite channels, would suddenly stop commissioning a programme in favor of something else rather than become directly involved in the production process - though saying it like that suddenly reminds me of the original cancellation of Knightmare, which makes me fear that history could repeat.
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I don't think there is anything to fear from the BBC. They did have Time Busters remember.
But the more I think about it the current format might not work on this Saturday night family slot, someone else raised a very good point about how the show might change to suite that slot. I think BBC TWO would be a better home. Knightamre still has a 'cult' following I think, it's seems common place to associate it with 'geek culture' and it's quite an intellectual show I suppose, So it's current format which is perfect wouldn't feel out of place on bbc 2.
When bbc 2 is home to shows like QI, Science club for example Knightamre wouldn't be out of place, (and those shows do have pretty good ratings, well I watch them lol)
I agree it wouldn't sell in the US. But they could have another go at making their version.. thankfully we wouldn't have to watch it.. lol (been watching those Spanish/French versions on youtube... )
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I don't think there is anything to fear from the BBC. They did have Time Busters remember.
But the more I think about it the current format might not work on this Saturday night family slot, someone else raised a very good point about how the show might change to suite that slot. I think BBC TWO would be a better home. Knightamre still has a 'cult' following I think, it's seems common place to associate it with 'geek culture' and it's quite an intellectual show I suppose, So it's current format which is perfect wouldn't feel out of place on bbc 2.
When bbc 2 is home to shows like QI, Science club for example Knightamre wouldn't be out of place, (and those shows do have pretty good ratings, well I watch them lol)
I agree it wouldn't sell in the US. But they could have another go at making their version.. thankfully we wouldn't have to watch it.. lol (been watching those Spanish/French versions on youtube... )
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Why would Knightmare being on BBC2 prevent the show being exported to the US any more than if it were broadcast on BBC1? As long as the BBC have broadcast and distribution rights to the series, and there's a market overseas, there shouldn't be a problem for BBC Worldwide to bring the show to the US regardless of which channel it's shown on in the UK.
And in the situation where the BBC can't or won't export the show, wouldn't Time Child and DungeonMaster Ltd (presumably) retain the ability to do so themselves? There's always that option, and considering the US is currently enjoying a number of British shows, there's a hunger for British programming so they would no-doubt welcome the original version completely unchanged.
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"Why would Knightmare being on BBC2 prevent the show being exported to the US any more than if it were broadcast on BBC1?"
How did you come to this conclusion? I never said anything of the sort.
I said BBC 2 might be the more appropriate than BBC 1, for the reasons that Mystara expressed earlier in the discussion.
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"Why would Knightmare being on BBC2 prevent the show being exported to the US any more than if it were broadcast on BBC1?"
How did you come to this conclusion? I never said anything of the sort.
I said BBC 2 might be the more appropriate than BBC 1, for the reasons that Mystara expressed earlier in the discussion.
It was this paragraph that led me to that conclusion:
I agree it wouldn't sell in the US. But they could have another go at making their version.. thankfully we wouldn't have to watch it.. lol (been watching those Spanish/French versions on youtube... )
I'm maybe reading between the lines here way too much. You mentioned the US making their own version, just after you pointed out the show wouldn't sell in the US - surely if the US were wanting to make a version, given the current era post Doctor Who, wouldn't they prefer the original version, British charm intact?
I got a bit confused, and so considered that you may be saying the BBC can't or won't export BBC2 programming for some reason. That's the only way I can think of where there would be a good marketing opportunity that can't be catered for, though it would be the first I'd heard of this, and considering your response to my post, completely incorrect to begin with
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The BBC Three target demographic is 16-34 and I wouldn't want it to lose its appeal to children. That's why I think a family show would be better. BBC Three tries very hard to be young and trendy and I can't really see KM fitting in there unless they made awful changes to the tone of the show!
To be honest I just can't imagine my fav ever tv show on a channel I find largely unwatchable!
I fear that only BBC One would have the money to do the show justice and then only with some commercial funding as well. But perhaps the S9 in my head is unrealistically high budget.
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The BBC Three target demographic is 16-34 and I wouldn't want it to lose its appeal to children. That's why I think a family show would be better. BBC Three tries very hard to be young and trendy and I can't really see KM fitting in there unless they made awful changes to the tone of the show!
To be honest I just can't imagine my fav ever tv show on a channel I find largely unwatchable!
I fear that only BBC One would have the money to do the show justice and then only with some commercial funding as well. But perhaps the S9 in my head is unrealistically high budget.
That's why I said BBC 3 because of the age range you mentioned. There would be more potential for Knightmare to fit into the schedule too I think.
It also depends on the target audience the series would aim at. If it were to be a family show, maybe it could be on BBC 1 or 2 but it would have to be on late morning or early afternoon (upto 3 or 4). I can't see it working as an evening programme because I don't think it would fit in with the schedule. Plus I think it would have to be on a Sunday as it could attract a better audience.
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