The new KM episode is up!
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I know what you mean about the "fan project" feel, missing all the little details that made the original production so excellent (plus the editing issues you mentioned), but I think it's just because of the time and budget constraints. Not ideal, but we can't really expect anything more polished under the circumstances. (I don't believe any fans were actually involved in making the episode, though, as implied by your last paragraph. I assume David Rowe worked on the graphics, as there's going to be some Geek Week stuff in his upcoming Art of Knightmare book.)
I am not writing this just to moan, I write it respectfully, as a fan, in a spirit of providing feedback so as to help improve any future productions.
Yes, I hope it's clear that all of us who criticised elements of the episode were doing so in that spirit. We just want the show to be the best (and therefore most successful) that it can be!
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It needs contestants who are young, naive, nervous, and very, very middle-class
I don't think it matters what 'class' your in, how would it matter?
Other than that you're pretty much spot on with everything else I think, but it was never going to be a fully polished episode, as for the 'fan episode' feeling I thought it was more of a spoof of itself which felt a bit weird to me.
The contestants had personality which I think isn't a bad thing but they did appear to be attempting to crack a few jokes and live up to their youtube identity's, at least that's how it came across to me, adding to that spoofy vibe I get when I watch it. It was a 'celebrity special' after all. Dunno about their normality, they looked liked regular kids too me.
At the end of the day, it wonderful they thought KM was still popular and relevant to even make the episode, and it has kicked some new life into it.
A new series can't be far. >
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GrandDizzy, I think you made some valid points and I do agree with some of the things you have mentioned.
I will say that it would have been amazing if 4 people from the forum had the chance to have taken part in the geek week episode. Don't get me wrong, Stuart, Dan, Phil and Emma were nice enough but it's a shame the likes of us didn't get a chance to participate.
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Valid points, GrandDizzy, and Canadanne has hit the nail on the head really.
In a typical series, the team would have several weeks for technical setup. Rooms would be tested and rehearsed, camera angles worked out, etc. for this production, the team had one day. That includes all set construction (e.g the voids), costume design, light setup, software calibration, etc. this is largely why there was no antechamber set - there was simply no time.
Similarly, there was very little time available for editing.
Regarding the team, again, it all depends on how you view the episode. If you see it as a brand new episode then yeah, it's going to be different. If you take it as a one-off, special, geek week episode, I think this is the only way it can be done.
Regarding graphics - I am fairly sure that David prepared some, but that at least some of them went unused. If I remember rightly , David made an antechamber that had to be replaced at the last minute. The local chroma key expert was telling me that the dungeons actually have to look a bit fake or cartoonish. Apparently making them highly realistic produces a weird effect. I found it interesting that they actually have to worsen the digital environment. Perhaps that is the source of the digital noise you mention.
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Slightly amused by GrandDizzy's assertion that contestants should by middle class (counts me out then!) Seriously though, you've made some good points GrandDizzy, and given probably the best review of the episode that I have read so far.
I view the Geek Week episode as a sort precursor to future Knightmare (I hope!). I seem to recall Tim Child saying that a lot of the reason for making the episode was to use as a pilot to market a potential production companies. Does anyone know whether Tim has been actively seeking a collaboration with a production company on the basis of the Geek Week episode?
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Delayed for a possible convention.
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Grandizzy, I would respectfully challenge two points you made, a} the cast looked completely unsinister to me, if I met them down an alley late at night I wouldn't be too worried. b) and adventure and escapism should be for kids of any background. I think your point is prebably unsinister meaning just that middle class kids somehow are less assertive/confident, making the threat of the dungeon seem more real in comparison. Anyway a can of worms to be left alone but I wanted to challenge. Peace
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To clarify, my "middle class" comment was mostly humorous. (Did no one notice the laughing smiley I put after it?) I might also have said contestants must be from Yorkshire (since there seemed to be so many Yorkshire teams in the early days).
I suppose what I was getting at with "middle class" was that the children on the show were usually quite well-read and well-educated and suitable for answering questions on popular mythology and literary fiction. In contrast, most young people today are far more familiar with pop culture than classic fiction and mythology, aside from what is popularised on screen. So, class aside, I think you need children who are fairly well educated.
Also, there litteracy skill's r like literally, alot more worser than what they where before I groan up. So they's might struggle too spellcast complicated woard's like "web" and "sun"
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ok thanks, well I agree on the Yorkshire bit, a great accent
I think overall including myself any fans of anything, can get a bit precious about how they think things should be. Taken to extremes you get Misery by Stephen King, where an obsessed fan kidnaps their favourite author and forces them write more novels about their favourite character, but only in a way that sits in with their idealised vision. Maybe Tim Child feels the same way >:-]
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The local chroma key expert was telling me that the dungeons actually have to look a bit fake or cartoonish. Apparently making them highly realistic produces a weird effect. I found it interesting that they actually have to worsen the digital environment. Perhaps that is the source of the digital noise you mention.
I would totally agree that the aim is definitely not for photo-realistic backdrops. That's because there will always be discrepancies between the live action and backgrounds (lighting, tone, contrast, sharpness etc.) and so the closer the background gets to photo-realism the more obvious these discrepancies become to the eye. So a slightly cartoony or stylised look is preferable. Also for the additional reason that we want to see the dungeoneer standing in a make-believe world. We don't want gritty reality, we want fantasy.
So my criticism of the graphics certainly wasn't that they lacked realism. I have a bunch of subtle criticisms but mostly that all the surfaces had a very strong and busy "noise" texture. I found it quite overwhelming and the dungeoneer is kind of "lost" amongst all the detail. Now I find it hard to imagine David Rowe having created these graphics (with the exception of Lord Fear's room, which was beautiful) because David's illustration always had surfaces that were soft, clean and elegant, really quite delicately painted and quite the opposite of this. (I suppose there is the possibility that David always used strong textures in his work which wasn't visible in SD but now is visible in HD?)
It's similar to when you paint backdrops for a stage production such as a pantomime: you generally don't use strong colours or large amounts of high contrast, you make everything softer and plainer, so that the performers really stand out against them. Same when I design backgrounds for catalogue pages. Colours have to be soft and not too distracting so that the products stand out
Well, this is all just my humble opinion. I am still really pleased with the episode, still happy that Knightmare came back. None of my criticisms represent a "thumbs down" from me. The whole thing is a triumph and I am really pleased. Knightmare is the best gameshow ever made.
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I suppose what I was getting at with "middle class" was that the children on the show were usually quite well-read and well-educated and suitable for answering questions on popular mythology and literary fiction
And kids from a working class background aren't ?
A lot of working class kids meet your requirements, and many middle class kids don't, class should be irrelevant I feel.
I don't think KM would had worked as well if it did look very realistic, part of the charm is that weird, illusions feel of the show,(I'm kinda anti CGI) Computer graphics look there worse when trying to look realistic I find
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Yep agree there Wombstar, one of the beauties of the show was it appealed and provided escapism to kids from all backgrounds. Intelligent + perceptive kids can be from any background.
I feel where there is less opportunity for Knightmare or a show like it now to suceed, is that immersive computer games like Warcraft/Runescape/Diablo/many others can now provide that escapism. There wasn't too much in the way of competition back then. The adventures of Zelda and Gaunlett perhaps, but still a world away from what games can create now
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Class has nothing to do with it but I do like my KM teams to have a certain meekness and respect for authority. The show rewarded those who followed the rules of the game - the dungeon was never a place for rebels.
This was my problem with the geek week team; they were too familiar, too cocky, too jokey and at no point really gave the impression they gave a stuff about winning.
Still, they got killed off so I guess the system works
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Thanks for dropping by the forum again, GrandDizzy. It's good to see such and old member (old as in long-standing) among our current posters. If only you'd written 'stereotypically middle class', your comment might have generated a bit less controversy. But probably not.
The children on the show were usually quite well-read and well-educated and suitable for answering questions on popular mythology and literary fiction. In contrast, most young people today are far more familiar with pop culture than classic fiction and mythology, aside from what is popularised on screen
Though even in the '80s we had Knightmare contestants hearing "Theseus [and] Labyrinth" and thinking of David Bowie films rather than Greek mythology! I have mixed feelings about the Geek Week contestants, but ultimately there were benefits in the big fanbases that they pointed in Knightmare's direction, however fleetingly.
If I remember rightly , David made an antechamber that had to be replaced at the last minute.
This may be the graphic that David has recently posted on Facebook.
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If I remember rightly , David made an antechamber that had to be replaced at the last minute.
This may be the graphic that David has recently posted on Facebook.[/quote]
That is beautiful. Very striking. What a shame that it wasn't used.
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Thanks for dropping by the forum again, GrandDizzy.
Thanks, Drassil. Great to be here. Obviously I'm not a regular, but occasionally I like to return , "entering" as a "stranger".
This may be the graphic that David has recently posted on Facebook.
Oh wow. Now you're talking! How sad that this vastly superior antechamber graphic wasn't used, I can only presume there weren't enough angles available for it to be used? I can think of no other logical reason. Shame.
It's lovely to see that David Rowe still has great affection for the programme and is proud of his work (which he should be), and that he was involved with the new episode to some degree. I really hope I haven't unwittingly criticised any of his work, since I have such respect for him. But I cannot deny that to my eyes those new rooms just seemed so starkly different in style to David's classic painted Knightmare backdrops.
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If it wasn't used, it was probably for a technical reason. They didn't have the time to force things to work and instead had to make do, in order to get things done in time.
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It was used in a manner of speaking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD0HtExsl4c
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