Knightmare Geek Week Extended Episode
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Using Youtubers as a way of drawing attention to a pilot is a great idea. Lots of people have now watched KM who would otherwise never have heard of it. If the pilot worked, people will have fallen for the format and be wanting more - format being the operative word.
Surely, as a commissioner, the feedback you're really interested in is what the new audience thinks of the format, rather than what the old audience thinks of the Youtubers.
If not, KM could be picked up by a network which doesn't really understand what makes the show tick and that doesn't bode well for a longer term comeback. Shows should have high ratings because they're good, not because viewers are chasing personalities around their various projects. An idealistic view I know, but KM is so precious that it should be treated with the utmost care and respect - do it properly or not at all! Citing negative feedback of Youtubers as a reason not to commission perhaps demonstrates that the network had no faith in the underlying format and the last thing we want is the input of a network which doesn't really believe in KM but thinks people will watch it if the right celebs are involved.
And personally, a KM which doesn't accept applications from members of the public will never be on my wish list. Kids should watch the show and think 'I want to be on Knightmare' not 'I want to be a Youtuber'.
That all said, I feel a bit of a dinosaur writing this - but I refer you to my second paragraph!
Anyway, good to see the extended geek week ep again! It does make me think that this sort of 'webisode' could increase KM's marketability by getting round the rolling format which many commissioners dislike i.e. without the restriction of a TV schedule episode length can vary and therefore each episode can be an entire quest, no matter how successful. The drawback is that the length of the video would, to a certain extent, give the game away!
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I would have hoped that a programme commissioner wouldn't have considered feedback that related to the YouTubers, who presumably wouldn't be part of the show on a regular basis.
But I also would have hoped that fans of the show wouldn't have shown themselves to being so sensitive to something as trivial as who the contestants are. If you really watch the episode, critically, they don't take much away from the show. They make the odd comment that shows that they don't take their involvement all that seriously, and I think that's what jars with some of the hardcore fan base.
But as a programme commissioner, I would be worried that the hardcore fan-base would turn into an organised hate group as a result of changes that would have to be made to the show. Like it or not, the networks do not seem to want a carbon copy of Knightmare, so if it ever comes back, something is going to have to change. By showing ourselves to be so inflexible, I think we damage our chances of the show ever coming back.
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Yes, hence the past tense
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I certainly read more positives than negatives from 'fans' and mainly positives from 'newbies' to the show. I'm surprised any network would care what people thought of the contestants unless they only wanted to go down that root (celebrities/parody) version of Km. After all it wasn't the format that got criticism.
Plus, it's a pilot not the finished result and there for any criticism should be considered constructive. (all pilots I've seen are very different to the commissioned show) I suspect theses tv networks just don't believe in the format and that they might be judging it for all the wrong things. (contestants)
Maybe if there was a revival of classic games shows things might be different.
Anyway, Onwards.
Never know what's around the corner, this past year for Km has proved that.
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Again, it's not the reaction to the contestants they care about. It's the seeming inflexibility of the fans.
and I totalty get that. As I say, if I were a programme commissioner I wouldn't want to take on a show where i know the format has to change and the fans will whinge at the slightest change from the format they want.
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afaik the networks aren't interested in the old format of the show so a new Knightmare will have a new format.
Therefore we need to be flexible. Complaining about things like "the contestants" or "the use of adults rather than kids" does not help because then we come across as being unwilling to accept anything but a carbon copy of Knightmare.
The networks won't give us that and if they think that's all we will accept, they will give us nothing.
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Recalling when Televirtual were trying to create TimeGate, most KM fans seemed eager about the idea, and it was a substantial change of format from Knightmare. Opposition to a format change on principle will probably be quite small. Objections are more likely to be based on whether the changes are good or bad.
Who the contestants were in a pilot episode is neither here nor there, as contestants are the parameters that change from episode-to-episode. That's true of any gameshow.
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Apparently the opposition was enough. I reiterate that networks are in a position where they are looking for a reason to drop it, not a reason to keep it.
Whether it's logical and whether we agree with it or not is really neither here nor there. That's the situation.
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Hmm, it does seem to be an excuse rather than a well thought out reason. Concern about a particular set of contestants seems a strange definition of inflexibility; they should see some comments about sight spells and the reach wand (and KM was still going strong then)!
Points already made aside, the number of fans who actively documented negative feedback (on this site or elsewhere) would be a tiny proportion of a potential audience. Wouldn't they?
It would be really interesting to hear how a network would want to tweak the format because geek week was essentially the show we all know and love.
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I don't know of anything specific. I think child contestants is considered to be undesirable.
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The Geek Week episode didn't offer any changes or a new format, it was pretty much the same, so how on earth can they claim the fans wont accept change when nothing new was offered?
But if the format changes too much then it's Knightmare in name only, they may as well make a whole new show. It's alright theses networks saying they want to do this and that but it's no good if their audience doesn't want to watch it. (make what people want to watch, seems like common sense)
However, Nobody is saying the show shouldn't change, we don't know what changes they wish to make, plus the GW ep was made to special requirements. Yes the ONE change that was made did receive negative feedback but that was regarding the individuals not the change itself, the idea of using adults has always been a positive as far as I know. The VR pilot tried to change the DNA of the show and look how that turned out.
I get the impression the networks want a celebrity based show, and it was the celebrity aspect of the pilot we didn't like.
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The Geek Week episode didn't offer any changes or a new format, it was pretty much the same,
It did offer changes.
They had adult contestants
They had celebrity contestants
As compared to any single series they were also minor changes in, for example, aesthetics (e.g. The use of the eye shield, the lack of reach wand, old style dungeons, etc).
so how on earth can they claim the fans wont accept change when nothing new was offered?
They haven't claimed that. I speculated it based on a small number of facts and some grapevines.
But if the format changes too much then it's Knightmare in name only, they may as well make a whole new show.
To some extent yes. But I suspect an attraction of "Knightmare" is the free fan base. It's as I said earlier. We can be a huge benefit or a curse. If we like what the networks make then we are a free, automatic, enormous fan base and we will guarantee the success of the show. If we don't like what we see, we will destroy the show through simple unwavering negativity.
Virtually impossible was an excellent example of this. Viewed in isolation, it's a good show. It was never intended to be compared or viewed as a replacement for Knightmare. But people did interpret it as a replacement for Knightmare and that destroyed it (the loss of virtually impossible actually seems to have sealed Knightmare's fate in turn, but that's another story)
It's alright theses networks saying they want to do this and that but it's no good if their audience doesn't want to watch it. (make what people want to watch, seems like common sense)
Well yes, but that's not the alternative.
The alternative is programme X which they like the format of, which they want to make, that they think people will be popular, and which minimises their risk.
However, Nobody is saying the show shouldn't change, we don't know what changes they wish to make, plus the GW ep was made to special requirements.
I strongly suspect, and this is speculation again, that doesn't matter on both counts.
The basis of any pitch to a network would be the pilot. You can tell the networks what you might change from the pilot but I think it's the pilot that will have the biggest effect.
As I have already mentioned, the networks are looking for a reason to say 'no'. So I suspect the network will do the quickest of reports to see what fans thought of the pilot.
Even if the report is as accurate as "people generally liked it but didn't like the contestants", I see it as unlikely that the network will go to the effort of working out the significance of that. Why bother when there will be 10 cheaper, quicker to make, readily repeatable shows, all with feedback of "entirely positive" with which to fill your 3 slots?
Yes the ONE change that was made did receive negative feedback but that was regarding the individuals not the change itself, the idea of using adults has always been a positive as far as I know.
It's not that simple though. If I was a programme maker, I would want to know why the contestants were so unpopular with the fans, what that means about the fans and what the effect of making a change to that feature would be.
OR, I could commission a different show which has no such problem
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I get the impression the networks want a celebrity based show, and it was the celebrity aspect of the pilot we didn't like.[/quote]
And that is exactly what I mean by inflexible.
A celebrity based show would have virtually no effect except perhaps slightly more confident and less bothered contestants. As a programme commissioner, I would never commission Knightmare if that was the general attitude of the fan base. Again, why bother when there will be 10 other shows around where I don't have to take the risk that a tiny change will cause the fan base to turn against the show?
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The Geek Week episode didn't offer any changes or a new format, it was pretty much the same,
It did offer changes.
They had adult contestants
They had celebrity contestants
As compared to any single series they were also minor changes in, for example, aesthetics (e.g. The use of the eye shield, the lack of reach wand, old style dungeons, etc).
so how on earth can they claim the fans wont accept change when nothing new was offered?
They haven't claimed that. I speculated it based on a small number of facts and some grapevines.
But if the format changes too much then it's Knightmare in name only, they may as well make a whole new show.
To some extent yes. But I suspect an attraction of "Knightmare" is the free fan base. It's as I said earlier. We can be a huge benefit or a curse. If we like what the networks make then we are a free, automatic, enormous fan base and we will guarantee the success of the show. If we don't like what we see, we will destroy the show through simple unwavering negativity.
Virtually impossible was an excellent example of this. Viewed in isolation, it's a good show. It was never intended to be compared or viewed as a replacement for Knightmare. But people did interpret it as a replacement for Knightmare and that destroyed it (the loss of virtually impossible actually seems to have sealed Knightmare's fate in turn, but that's another story)
It's alright theses networks saying they want to do this and that but it's no good if their audience doesn't want to watch it. (make what people want to watch, seems like common sense)
Well yes, but that's not the alternative.
The alternative is programme X which they like the format of, which they want to make, that they think people will be popular, and which minimises their risk.
However, Nobody is saying the show shouldn't change, we don't know what changes they wish to make, plus the GW ep was made to special requirements.
I strongly suspect, and this is speculation again, that doesn't matter on both counts.
The basis of any pitch to a network would be the pilot. You can tell the networks what you might change from the pilot but I think it's the pilot that will have the biggest effect.
As I have already mentioned, the networks are looking for a reason to say 'no'. So I suspect the network will do the quickest of reports to see what fans thought of the pilot.
Even if the report is as accurate as "people generally liked it but didn't like the contestants", I see it as unlikely that the network will go to the effort of working out the significance of that. Why bother when there will be 10 cheaper, quicker to make, readily repeatable shows, all with feedback of "entirely positive" with which to fill your 3 slots?
Yes the ONE change that was made did receive negative feedback but that was regarding the individuals not the change itself, the idea of using adults has always been a positive as far as I know.
It's not that simple though. If I was a programme commissioner I I would want to know why the contestants were so unpopular with the fans, what that means about the fans and what the effect of making a change to that feature would be.
OR, I could commission a different show which has no such problem
I get the impression the networks want a celebrity based show, and it was the celebrity aspect of the pilot we didn't like.
And that is exactly what I mean by inflexible.
A celebrity based show would have virtually no effect except perhaps slightly more confident and less bothered contestants. As a programme commissioner, I would never commission Knightmare if that was the general attitude of the fan base. Again, why bother when there will be 10 other shows around where I don't have to take the risk that a tiny change will cause the fan base to turn against the show?
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And that is exactly what I mean by inflexible.
A celebrity based show would have virtually no effect except perhaps slightly more confident and less bothered contestants.
And this is what would really annoy me if this was the case. I haven't got anything against celebrity contestants. But the last thing I would want to see is them doing it for exposure purposes. Having celebrity contestants doesn't make a show better either.
I don't see why the format would have to change. Look at Catchphrase. Since it was brought back it's done well. There was no radical changes there.
If the only way forward is by having celebrities then so be it but I believe the quality would suffer as a result. As Tim Child said, the kids were the stars.
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The format would have to change because the networks will not even consider the old format. It's not considered viable.
If you don't want Knightmare with celebrities, by all means make it clear. Just be aware that this isn't a process where everyone will keep trying until some middle ground is reached.
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It's just my opinion. Also you touched on something which I wanted to comment on. (A celebrity based show would have virtually no effect except perhaps slightly more confident and less bothered contestants)
If I had a choice of celebrity contestants or not, I'd rather go without due to the above which you said.
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