Knightmare Geek Week Extended Episode
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The Geek Week episode didn't offer any changes or a new format, it was pretty much the same,
It did offer changes.
They had adult contestants
They had celebrity contestants
As compared to any single series they were also minor changes in, for example, aesthetics (e.g. The use of the eye shield, the lack of reach wand, old style dungeons, etc).
so how on earth can they claim the fans wont accept change when nothing new was offered?
They haven't claimed that. I speculated it based on a small number of facts and some grapevines.
But if the format changes too much then it's Knightmare in name only, they may as well make a whole new show.
To some extent yes. But I suspect an attraction of "Knightmare" is the free fan base. It's as I said earlier. We can be a huge benefit or a curse. If we like what the networks make then we are a free, automatic, enormous fan base and we will guarantee the success of the show. If we don't like what we see, we will destroy the show through simple unwavering negativity.
Virtually impossible was an excellent example of this. Viewed in isolation, it's a good show. It was never intended to be compared or viewed as a replacement for Knightmare. But people did interpret it as a replacement for Knightmare and that destroyed it (the loss of virtually impossible actually seems to have sealed Knightmare's fate in turn, but that's another story)
It's alright theses networks saying they want to do this and that but it's no good if their audience doesn't want to watch it. (make what people want to watch, seems like common sense)
Well yes, but that's not the alternative.
The alternative is programme X which they like the format of, which they want to make, that they think people will be popular, and which minimises their risk.
However, Nobody is saying the show shouldn't change, we don't know what changes they wish to make, plus the GW ep was made to special requirements.
I strongly suspect, and this is speculation again, that doesn't matter on both counts.
The basis of any pitch to a network would be the pilot. You can tell the networks what you might change from the pilot but I think it's the pilot that will have the biggest effect.
As I have already mentioned, the networks are looking for a reason to say 'no'. So I suspect the network will do the quickest of reports to see what fans thought of the pilot.
Even if the report is as accurate as "people generally liked it but didn't like the contestants", I see it as unlikely that the network will go to the effort of working out the significance of that. Why bother when there will be 10 cheaper, quicker to make, readily repeatable shows, all with feedback of "entirely positive" with which to fill your 3 slots?
Yes the ONE change that was made did receive negative feedback but that was regarding the individuals not the change itself, the idea of using adults has always been a positive as far as I know.
It's not that simple though. If I was a programme maker, I would want to know why the contestants were so unpopular with the fans, what that means about the fans and what the effect of making a change to that feature would be.
OR, I could commission a different show which has no such problem
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I get the impression the networks want a celebrity based show, and it was the celebrity aspect of the pilot we didn't like.[/quote]
And that is exactly what I mean by inflexible.
A celebrity based show would have virtually no effect except perhaps slightly more confident and less bothered contestants. As a programme commissioner, I would never commission Knightmare if that was the general attitude of the fan base. Again, why bother when there will be 10 other shows around where I don't have to take the risk that a tiny change will cause the fan base to turn against the show?
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The Geek Week episode didn't offer any changes or a new format, it was pretty much the same,
It did offer changes.
They had adult contestants
They had celebrity contestants
As compared to any single series they were also minor changes in, for example, aesthetics (e.g. The use of the eye shield, the lack of reach wand, old style dungeons, etc).
so how on earth can they claim the fans wont accept change when nothing new was offered?
They haven't claimed that. I speculated it based on a small number of facts and some grapevines.
But if the format changes too much then it's Knightmare in name only, they may as well make a whole new show.
To some extent yes. But I suspect an attraction of "Knightmare" is the free fan base. It's as I said earlier. We can be a huge benefit or a curse. If we like what the networks make then we are a free, automatic, enormous fan base and we will guarantee the success of the show. If we don't like what we see, we will destroy the show through simple unwavering negativity.
Virtually impossible was an excellent example of this. Viewed in isolation, it's a good show. It was never intended to be compared or viewed as a replacement for Knightmare. But people did interpret it as a replacement for Knightmare and that destroyed it (the loss of virtually impossible actually seems to have sealed Knightmare's fate in turn, but that's another story)
It's alright theses networks saying they want to do this and that but it's no good if their audience doesn't want to watch it. (make what people want to watch, seems like common sense)
Well yes, but that's not the alternative.
The alternative is programme X which they like the format of, which they want to make, that they think people will be popular, and which minimises their risk.
However, Nobody is saying the show shouldn't change, we don't know what changes they wish to make, plus the GW ep was made to special requirements.
I strongly suspect, and this is speculation again, that doesn't matter on both counts.
The basis of any pitch to a network would be the pilot. You can tell the networks what you might change from the pilot but I think it's the pilot that will have the biggest effect.
As I have already mentioned, the networks are looking for a reason to say 'no'. So I suspect the network will do the quickest of reports to see what fans thought of the pilot.
Even if the report is as accurate as "people generally liked it but didn't like the contestants", I see it as unlikely that the network will go to the effort of working out the significance of that. Why bother when there will be 10 cheaper, quicker to make, readily repeatable shows, all with feedback of "entirely positive" with which to fill your 3 slots?
Yes the ONE change that was made did receive negative feedback but that was regarding the individuals not the change itself, the idea of using adults has always been a positive as far as I know.
It's not that simple though. If I was a programme commissioner I I would want to know why the contestants were so unpopular with the fans, what that means about the fans and what the effect of making a change to that feature would be.
OR, I could commission a different show which has no such problem
I get the impression the networks want a celebrity based show, and it was the celebrity aspect of the pilot we didn't like.
And that is exactly what I mean by inflexible.
A celebrity based show would have virtually no effect except perhaps slightly more confident and less bothered contestants. As a programme commissioner, I would never commission Knightmare if that was the general attitude of the fan base. Again, why bother when there will be 10 other shows around where I don't have to take the risk that a tiny change will cause the fan base to turn against the show?
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And that is exactly what I mean by inflexible.
A celebrity based show would have virtually no effect except perhaps slightly more confident and less bothered contestants.
And this is what would really annoy me if this was the case. I haven't got anything against celebrity contestants. But the last thing I would want to see is them doing it for exposure purposes. Having celebrity contestants doesn't make a show better either.
I don't see why the format would have to change. Look at Catchphrase. Since it was brought back it's done well. There was no radical changes there.
If the only way forward is by having celebrities then so be it but I believe the quality would suffer as a result. As Tim Child said, the kids were the stars.
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The format would have to change because the networks will not even consider the old format. It's not considered viable.
If you don't want Knightmare with celebrities, by all means make it clear. Just be aware that this isn't a process where everyone will keep trying until some middle ground is reached.
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It's just my opinion. Also you touched on something which I wanted to comment on. (A celebrity based show would have virtually no effect except perhaps slightly more confident and less bothered contestants)
If I had a choice of celebrity contestants or not, I'd rather go without due to the above which you said.
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Lots of fun and a most worthy dvd extra if that dream ever became reality!
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Time Busters would make a interesting 'remake' i suppose.
I don't see what this attraction or need to make it with 'celebrities' comes from, i guess celeb based game shows are all the rage right now so i might be best for Km to sit tight a bit longer until that's blown over.
But it sounds like they have no interests in making Knightmare regardless of how popular the show still is, (possibly too expensive?) A new format doesn't mean it will be successful (more risky id say) By all means update it.
But he world doesn't seem ready for such it's return, might have to wait a bit longer for it to fall into the right hands, someone who knows what it is and what made it a hit in the first place, than someone wanting to turn it into another celebrity joke shop (the live shows fill's that role nicely) i guess the time isn't right for a show like KM Maybe we're the only ones who wants to see it return anyway?
Revived Doctor who is an example of a show that was updated but kept the same format/DNA and it's brilliant and successful.
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Yep the extended version works much better, like the wall monster (some colour in the eyes would of been good) and the causeway room. A floating head Dave Cameron/Ed Milliband/Kim Kardisian or just traditional skull would of been good.
The opening scene, there were some good ideas there, the revive spell, Isy being stiched up into an internship to 'clean up dungeon', but its execution is woodern and awkward. Written at the last hour + original art work for antechamber couldn't be used, so can't be too hard there. Maybe cutting to Treguard snoring, and a quicker start into the game would of worked.
Having you Tubers was important to generate interest, and they seemed to be respectful. Still a victory, on the whole thought it was very good.
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Its the opening camera angle, graphics and dialogue which doesn't work for me, up until around 2.15 which works much better from there. Would cut that out all together. From there the way it flicks between the Team and Treguard and Isy in close up works well. Isy squeezing past the bench again little awkward and think that just needed to be a bit more punchy and straight into game.
Slightly weak start but again I think the rest is great
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It's a pity they died off so soon, that room looks really difficult and was a bit cruel, but maybe it was designed to kill them off so it could be edited into a 30 minute episode?
Id like to have seen it end half way thought the quest and then the extended version could show the full quest, but of course it all down to the team but it was a nasty room to get.
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It's a pity they died off so soon, that room looks really difficult and was a bit cruel, but maybe it was designed to kill them off so it could be edited into a 30 minute episode?
It wasn't.
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So great to see this version again.
I definitely feel it flows better then the edited Geek Week version, though I enjoyed that version as well and the shortening of the opening scene lends to the episode flowing better most certainly.
I liked seeing more of Theodora Snitch in her scene and also the extended 2nd Spyglass scene with Lord Fear & Lissard. (Loved the Broadsword reference also.)
The floor puzzle was a nice little addition and nicely challenging. The Gargoyle/Blocker/Wall Monster (Delete as appropriate) was also a fun extra. The Slice Me Dice Me puzzle is still my fave innovation for KMVR and glad it was brought into this. (Also nice to have Garstang mentioned)
Sylvester The Jester still leaves me a little 'Meh' as a character but he has potential and Daisy (Though scripted) I find rather endearing and wouldn't mind seeing her in the assistants role again.
All in all though its a nice little episode and very enjoyable.
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If I could have made one editing change in the extended version, it would have been to put in the traditional goblin horn sound in place of that alpine horn.
It's hard to know whether Dan was nervous, overexcited, performing or just being himself. But it's worth noting that during the second showing of the extended episode at the convention (I wasn't in the room for the first), Dan got plenty of laughs from the audience.
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Personally, I enjoyed the whole thing. I did like the extended version with extra with the wall monster and the floor puzzles and we got the life force on dangerous low, which was good to see. The new puzzle was quite hard !
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The extended Geek Week episode is now available on Knightmare.com via the homepage banner story: https://www.knightmare.com/series/geek-week/geekweek-watch.html
Please spread the news. There's a good number of people who won't yet have seen this version. There's potentially a good number who won't even know of the GeekWeek revival.
(And if website contributors could refer to this page / version, we'd be grateful for that too. Let's rack up some views!)
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Could someone please help?
I'd really like to see the extended version. But the link on page 1 goes to a removed video.
And the version on Knightmare.com (linked in the post above this) says the content has been removed as it belongs to ITV! Surely this is wrong!
I really want to see the extended version
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It is not.
ITV's agents objected to the video, saying that it's Series 8, Episode something or other, which is their intellectual property. Despite my protestation, they've maintained their objection. Clearly some idiot somewhere hasn't actually bothered to check properly.
My only remaining courses of action are:
a) to provide some kind of written agreement from Tim showing that we have the right to the video
b) to have Tim talk to ITV to talk to their agents to get them to back off on this particular case
Both are actually quite complex. If ITV's agents continue to argue about (a) without doing their homework, it'll likely end up in court. Meanwhile, option (b) requires a complex chain of communication involving people that don't talk very often and have other more important things to discuss anyhow.
I continue to look into it every so often, but I'm afraid for now, there's nothing more I can do
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Hi Mystara
You may not be aware but this is a VERY common problem on youtube and it never ends up in court - especially as it is becoming a big thing for people to post reactions and reviews of films and TV shows on youtube these days.
The video is pulled down by a copyright claim. This is because youtube's system of protecting copyright holders' rights is very very flawed. Copyright holders like movie studios or in this case a TV channel (ITV) will literally pull down anything and everything willy-nilly without actually checking it.
All you have to do is object to the copyright claim. As far as I know this gives the claim holder 30 days to either drop the claim or keep it going. Sometimes they will see sense and drop it immediately because they realise it's not their content. But sometimes they will choose to keep it going for the full 30 days. Either way it's nothing to worry about. You then have a second (and final) chance to object to the claim. Again, 30 days will pass.
After these 30 days (60 in total) the claim is ALWAYS dropped. It NEVER goes to court. Why? Because it's not their material! A company like ITV isn't going to take a member of the public to court for posting their material when it's NOT their material. They would be laughed out of court and quite possibly fined for wasting the court's time and lodging false claims.
Trust me. It never ends up in court. It's just a flawed system on youtube that allows faceless companies to remove videos - it's not even people who are removing them it's just an automated system.
Skip to 0:45 on this video. This guys explains it quite well.
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Indeed.
The difficulty is that, according to the appeal process, YouTube have told me I can only object further by providing evidence that I have the right to show it.
Sadly, I don't have any kind of contract or signed agreement to show.
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