Series 3 - Episode 3
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Sounded like: "Stop! That's far enough you Southwark/Suffolk raider".
It sounds more like "sullock/sulloch raider" to me, but I have no idea what that would mean...
Although a lot of Velda's dialogue is extremely confusing to understand in that scene.
Hmm, you're right... I can't make out what she calls Grimwold either, as everyone's talking over the top of her. "I see from your blundering you have let a ????? come into this place" - it sounds like "pettigon", but again I can find no such word.
Oh Velda, why must your language be so bewildering? I'll check back here in 7 years' time and maybe somebody will have figured it out...
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I'm inclined to say that Cliff's death was fair.
One factor that I hadn't considered - indeed, going by previous posts, it seems none of us has - is Merlin's description of the DANCE spell: "diversionary magic". In my opinion, this is misleading. I'm not sure I stand by my earlier verdict now. If only the spell had been something less noisy, like SLEEP or FREEZE, or indeed TOAD: the team wouldn't have felt such a need to get the heck out, the slapstick distraction wouldn't have been quite so overbearing, and in the ensuing calm, Treguard might have felt inclined to suggest that the team exploit the situation.
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I really don't think Cliff's death was fair. Christopher from Series 2 had to cast WEB against Cedric, which he didn't have to dispell. Like Cedric in Christopher's scene, McGrew seemed like a dangerous threat to Cliff and DANCE was needed against him. I think the two situations were very similar.
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You know what, I hate to say it, but I don't think the Vale of Vanburn is the right name... I've just watched this episode again and it sounds like Velda actually calls it the Vale of Banburn! The second time in particular it's quite a clear 'B' sound, at least through these headphones. Which is a shame because I like Vanburn better...
I can't make out what she calls Grimwold either, as everyone's talking over the top of her. "I see from your blundering you have let a ????? come into this place" - it sounds like "pettigon", but again I can find no such word.
Listening to this again, it sounds more like "I see by your blundering you have pulled a pertadonkle into this place", which still doesn't help! Maybe TC just made some words up?
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It sounds more like "peasant ogre" to me.
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Velda tends to use Old English curses I think, or in her case 'elven' curses....
Anyway, this is basically all I have for this episode:
Got to love Velda! Even if she is a bit... loud.
Simon! She didn't say THROW the gauntlet at her!
I think Natasha may have made contact with Mr Grimwold there... rather looks like she clobbered him in the knackers.
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I hereby request to the Court Of Knightmare that the untimely death of Cliff should be posthumously pardoned.
The spell of Dance was given to Cliff and his advisors by Merlin as "a sort of a diversionary magic".
A diversionary magic was indeed necessary when a Scotsman of the name "McGrew" drew a weapon upon Cliff and began to shout unintelligible nonsense.
As he was Scottish there is a strong possibilty that "McGrew" was under the influence of alcohol, possibly Tennents Special Brew.
The Dance spell was cast upon "WcGrew" and he subsequently pranced around in a quite ludicrous fashion, shouting words which were once again, completely unintelligible.
As their Dungeoneer was under threat from this ludicrous character, Cliff's advisors hastily gave him directions to the next chamber.
The unfortunate Cliff was then in a room where he was brutally attacked by a haunted sword, which proceeded to devour his lifeforce.
The Dungen Master, a Mr. Treguard, suggeested "If only you had listened to the pleas of McGrew".
This case does not stand up on the basis that the pleas of McGrew were totally unclear to Cliff and his advisors.
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Not sure on this on. On on hand like Martin said, the advisors were talking over McGrew. On the other hand, the moment McGrew said "I'll do anything for you", a split second later Cliff left the room. Without being harsh on David Verry, could he have said that a bit earlier? He knew Cliff was about to leave the room.
Still not sure if the death was harsh or not!
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For the avoidance of doubt, here's the transcript of the words/noises that emerge from McGrew's mouth following the casting of the DANCE spell, the so called "pleas of McGrew":
"Err err ahh ahh ahh ahh ahh ahh ah. Dancing dancing I'm a pror queen falanfer. Oh will you ne'er release me from this awful music. Maraclit, maraclit arrabu oh will you no pear peas me. I'll do anything for thee."
The crucial, and the only clearly intelligible words spoken "I'll do anything for thee" are uttered as Cliff is already walking through the door to the next room.
It is also unrealistic to suggest that the advisors were at fault for talking over McGrew's nonsense. Their Dungeoneer had been threatened in a very aggressive fashion by a man with a sword who could not now even speak coherently. The logical thing to do was to exit the room as quickly as possible.
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Sounded like: "Stop! That's far enough you Southwark/Suffolk raider".
It sounds more like "sullock/sulloch raider" to me, but I have no idea what that would mean...
The TV subtitles last weekend had: "That's far enough, you!" Cowards.
Going back to the DANCE scene: although the dialogue after the spell was cast seems continuous, the length of time it takes Cliff to reach the exit might suggest some editing. I'd very much like to hear the team's own memories of the scene one day.
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Could the word in question be "Sassenach"?
It's an offensive Gaelic/Scottish word, typically meaning someone from England.
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Could the word in question be "Sassenach"?
It's an offensive Gaelic/Scottish word, typically meaning someone from England.
As it happens, McGrew refers to Cliff's "Sassenach hide" earlier in the same episode. But as Annie said, Velda's words sound closest to "Sullock raider" which has no obvious meaning. ITV Children's Classics has a YouTube clip.
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"Err err ahh ahh ahh ahh ahh ahh ah. Dancing dancing I'm a pror queen falanfer. Oh will you ne'er release me from this awful music. Maraclit, maraclit arrabu oh will you no pear peas me. I'll do anything for thee."
That makes it much clearer, thank you... I would suggest that "Maraclit, maraclit arrabu" should read "Mercy, mercy, I beg of you", that being said I more or less stand by my comments of 2004. As it's taken us over ten years to work out what's being said I still think it's harsh to have expected the team to have been able to have heard it and reacted to it without any prompting. That and that fact that Merlin refers to it as 'diversionary' which suggests cast spell and run, not cast spell and debate whether to dispell.
Certainly a shame as this team were getting into their stride and would have stood a decent chance of a win if they made it to level three.
Anyway, while I remembered the DANCE/death debacle and debate I had forgotten about the little 'chase sequences' where Grimwold or the goblins follow the dungeoneer. I enjoyed these they certainly up the pace of the quests.
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I had forgotten about the little 'chase sequences' where Grimwold or the goblins follow the dungeoneer. I enjoyed these they certainly up the pace of the quests.
I always thought the most irritating thing about the first three series was how slowly the quests are paced, especially when compared to something like series 7, where they are snappy and non-stop even without the Eye Shield!
The chase sequences certainly upped the ante in series 3, and were a step in the right direction IMHO.
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Not sure if it would constitute a 'chase' but I always enjoyed whenever the Automatum would appear and follow the dungeoneer in the very earliest series. Believe he was written out after Series 2 with the introduction of a new batch of character ideas, but always provided some tangible suspense and a level of fearful menace.
Unfortunately still haven't got round to viewing the new Series on challenge as yet due to other commitments but they're usually available on Youtube. Sure years ago there used to be a repeat edition at a later time either the same day or later the same week but for now, finding it difficult to catch the two broadcasts on a Sunday morning. (Don't have a recording device either it should be mentioned)
Never mind we'll find a way round this one way or the other.
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A seemingly harsh ending for team 2.
They very calmly and efficiently evaded the pursuing goblins in the corridor of the catacombs and then thru the caverns (seen for the 1st time) before they encountered McGrew. Used their diversionary "DANCE" spell, but in their rush to escape they failed to notice him say that he would do anything to help them, if they released him....
In the next cavern there was no way thru the force-field into the mining tunnel and a haunting sword destroyed their life-force....
The ending seemed harsh as they had only moments to hear McGrew's pleas before they escaped. He was about to run Cliff thru before the spell was cast and they did not know whether he could be trusted if they did release him.
With the benefit of hindsight we know that McGrew was a dangerous character, but he was not evil, and if placated he could be very helpful. As in a later quest, he would have been able to fight off the haunting sword and then push the mine-cart thru the force-field to level 3.
Might this team have had an earlier let-off (which we did not see) which is why they received no prompting about dispelling from Treguard?
Team 3 were very hesitant with their directional movement, barely escaping the bomb room in time and nearly stepping over a cliff edge after a left/right mixup.
They were very bright however, 3/3 against Golgarach with no prompting at all.
Simon also seemed to have trouble hearing his advisors, especially when the ogre was roaring.
On the level 2 spindizzy when the bell sounded....
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I believe it was unfair that the team should have known to dispell the DANCE spell on McGrew.
To those justifying the decision by saying they ignored his pleas... hmmm... there's a difference between hearing something and choosing to ignore it, and not knowing to listen in the first place.
They had just put a spell on this guy, cursing him to dance against his will. Obviously the character is going to be yelling objections - who wouldn't? There is no way for them to know they are supposed to just stand there and listen.
The spell seems like it exists as a way for them to get away from this enemy. And so they cast it, and get away. They're doing what they think they're supposed to be doing. They're not hearing his pleas and choosing to ignore them.
They're not psychic. Seems unfair that they were supposed to know that's not what the writers had in mind. I notice a fair bit of this in the early series and thankfully less so from Series 4 onwards.
A different approach by the actor (and hence, the director, telling the actor what to do) would have been better. Instead of dancing around the room yelling unintelligible babble, why wasn't he grabbing hold of the dungeoneer, clealry begging for the spell to be lifted in exchange for help? Again, the team aren't psychic. From their point of view, the character of McGrew is doing exactly what you'd expect someone to do when they have a DANCE spell put on them.
Having said all that...
This action leading to the team's death may seem unfair in isolation. But looking at their quest as a whole, perhaps less so.
The above poster ponders that maybe the team had been let off for something else that we didn't see and that resulted in them being given no leeway here. Perhaps. But no need to speculate on that when we DID see plenty of help being given in other rooms. The serpent's tongue for example. They were basically told what to do there. And the corridor with the moving wall, I feel like they were given extra time there.
So I am in two minds.
Part of me thinks it's really unfair that they are practically told what to do in serpeant's tongue room, yet expected to be psychic with the McGrew situation.
The other part of me thinks that a team shouldn't need their hand held all the way through the dungeon and perhaps they had used up all the help they were going to get.
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I believe it was unfair that the team should have known to dispell the DANCE spell on McGrew.
Instead of dancing around the room yelling unintelligible babble, why wasn't he grabbing hold of the dungeoneer, clealry begging for the spell to be lifted in exchange for help?
This is something that I agree with. It wasn't overly clear what they needed to do and McGrew was a relatively unknown quality at this point. At the very least he seemed aggressive, and that would have made him seem like more of a threat. If it had been me, I would've wanted to get away from him too.
I'm also of the opinion that the bagpipe music wasn't helping, as it made him much more indistinct! I could barely hear his pleas throughout the scene (also given the team's instructions) as it was far too loud!
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