Series 8 Episode 9

[avenueroad]

Why didn't magic seem to work on Snapper Jack? Be honest though! When Dunstan encountered him at the Marblehead Junction, it seemed that the team had ignored Treguard's warning. When the advisors instructed Dunstan to open the bottle, Treguard continued to warn and with that failing, Snapper Jack had to convince the dungeoneer not to. Did the producton crew act to prevent the Palladin bottle from being opened at the wrong time? Dunstan had his hand on the stopper and was going to take it off the bottle. Snapper Jack had to intervene himself to make sure that the bottle remained unopened. I have been thinking about Major Charles Ingram on Who Wants To Be A Millionaire at the same time when he was signalled not to go for 'Berlin' on his £500,000 question. In Dunstan's quest, the production crew I believe had to use every pull out all the stops to make sure that the team did not enter 'losing status' at that point. The production crew could not afford to kill off teams at certain times like in the middle of the final episode of each season for example.

[Mystara]

Ah, fortunately, I have expertise with this team.

When Dunstan encountered him at the Marblehead Junction, it seemed that the team had ignored Treguard's warning.

Not really.

We were told that magic doesn't work on him. By drinking a potion we'd be using magic on ourselves.

It therefore seemed like a legitimate response when faced with a threat.

When the advisors instructed Dunstan to open the bottle, Treguard continued to warn and with that failing, Snapper Jack had to convince the dungeoneer not to.

Having rewatched it just now, Treguard's second warning comes simultaneously with Snapper Jack's "no no no".

Did the producton crew act to prevent the Palladin bottle from being opened at the wrong time?

In the sense that they somehow physically stopped us opening the bottle, or reshot the sequence, no.

In the sense that they gave us a clue not to try using the bottle, once we announced our intentions, yes. Because if they didn't, winning or losing would have devolved into complete luck. A legitimate response to an encounter would have been punished for no reason whatsoever. Whilst that did happen in early series, it was something they were trying to move away from.

In Dunstan's quest, the production crew I believe had to use every pull out all the stops to make sure that the team did not enter 'losing status' at that point. The production crew could not afford to kill off teams at certain times like in the middle of the final episode of each season for example.

Firstly, this isn't the final episode of the season. There's another episode after it.

Secondly, the production team do introduce a new team in the middle of the final episode of the season. So they clearly weren't trying to avoid that.

Thirdly, if it was their intention to avoid having us open the bottle, they've presented it in a very clunky manner. They could have cut straight to the questions rather than showing us nearly opening the bottle.

Fourthly, this isn't the sort of thing that losing status (such as it is*) would have been applied to, because (IMO) it was a legitimate response.

Paranoia on our part (we were in level 3 after all), but hardly an unforgivable response.

• I think people set far too much store by the concept of "losing status" and are interpreting Tim's comments on the issue as some kind of formalised rules system. I think the underlying mechanism is as simple as balancing fair gameplay with good tv. If a team was going to die, it would be done in such a way that it made for good tv. If the team somehow exonerated themselves during that time, they would be given a reprieve.

[Mashibinbin]

I'm with Alan on this one. True the Paladin bottle was about to be used erroneously but the key here is the fact they were about to and didn't actually do so. With the compacting of maybe as many as five episodes worth of plot into possibly no more than 2 made the editing is messy at best and as a result we see a lot more of their team's decision making process than their actual final decision.

[Pooka]

True the Paladin bottle was about to be used erroneously but the key here is the fact they were about to and didn't actually do so.

It's interesting to note that the team opened the Paladin bottle on the Golden Galleon and the trapdoor opened before Dunstan had the chance to drink it. (Personally, I thought they would have had to use Reach to open the trapdoor - but I think it just automatically opened...)

I think it's fair that this didn't count as using the Paladin potion either. It may have been almost used (for a second time), but he didn't imbibe it.

I've heard people saying that the team should have died during their final encounter because they shouldn't have been able to use the Paladin bottle. I think that it's completely fair they could use it. Whether or not they almost did, they didn't. It's a fair victory.

[wombstar]

The bottle was never used or it's contents consumed and to me opening it doesn't count as using it.

So it was ok for the team to still have it come the final encounter.

[Morghanna]

Team 6 encountered Stiletta, warned her of danger and returned her green dagger. She told them the secret short-cut to level 3.

*Loved the inadvertent: "She's behind you!" *

In fireball alley they nearly walked Dunstan straight into a fireball before they located the entrance to the short-cut and entered the corridor of blades. They were rather unconvincing with their directions (one advisor kept getting left/right mixed-up) and i thought Dunstan was gonna get sliced.

As this was a short-cut, i assumed that it would be even tougher than usual with faster blades and more of them, but it didn't seem any trickier than usual. (In fact, the one faced by Giles et al in S4 was more challenging.)

Reached the level 3 clue-room. Chose the "paladin" potion and a lantern.

Reached Maldame and (eventually) warned her about LF's plots. She gave her calling name in return. (Notable that she directly offered to help them in return for their info. No such assistance for team 3.)

They had a lucky moment when Dunstan was ordered to use the "paladin" potion, but the trap-door opened to release him before he wasted it.

Re-encountered Motley & Stiletta. Love the way Motley referred to her as "Miss Cutlery". Traded their lantern for a key, then got into a massive panic directing him out when they heard goblin horns.

Made a much more steady job of opening the rune-lock door, with troll footsteps approaching.

Confronted by Snapper-Jack. Again they nearly wasted their "paladin" potion, but Treguard instructed them not to use it. Answered all three questions with no problems.

Entered the fireball room as time-out arrived.