Knightmare HD restoration project
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Greetings Watchers,
I cannot believe it has been 7 years since I last made a post here (how time flies!), so it's excellent to see that the site and forums are sill ticking along! I think the last time I was here, I managed to pick up one of David Rowe's Art of Knightmare books too!
I had originally drafted a huge OP with all sorts of details, but I will forgo that for now, and just ask a simple direct question just in case it ultimately proves a waste of time. As the topic title suggests, has there been any dedicated attempts to restore old Knightmare footage to 1080p HD quality? Or is that a kind of no no here on the forums? Has it been attempted before (I haven't been able to dig up anything via the search function)?
I remember back years ago participating in a topic in regards to eBay bootleg copies of the entire show for sale (which I had bought long prior to the topic), and the general consensus was that was not cool due to being illegal. However at that time, i think there was also an active effort to get some sort of DVD collection released.
I have other things i could discuss on any such project, but like I said, I don't want to waste time. I may end up doing it for myself anyways, but I just wanted to check if there was any desire or want, to take on such a project?
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Howdy Peter,
Good to hear from you!
As the topic title suggests, has there been any dedicated attempts to restore old Knightmare footage to 1080p HD quality? Or is that a kind of no no here on the forums? Has it been attempted before (I haven't been able to dig up anything via the search function)?
No attempt has been made to my knowledge.
I'm also not entirely sure how this would be possible since even copies of the original transmissions from ITV would only be at 480p. My understanding is that you'd need to obtain the original raw film footage and digitally re-scan it in order to produce it at 1080p. You could try and digitally upscale it, but the results are likely to be awful.
A further problem that you'd have are that the effects would need to be recreated otherwise you'd have a horrific clash of resolutions.
And, of course, you'd be infringing copyright. Although I daresay that Tim Child/ITV could probably be persuaded to license someone trying to do this for a fairly nominal fee if they got remastered versions out of it.
I remember back years ago participating in a topic in regards to eBay bootleg copies of the entire show for sale (which I had bought long prior to the topic), and the general consensus was that was not cool due to being illegal. However at that time, i think there was also an active effort to get some sort of DVD collection released.
That's very much still the attitude.
People will generally turn a blind eye to taking a very very small portion of the show in order to do/make something new. But any wholesale use of episodes would need agreement from the powers that be.
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Howdy Peter,
Good to hear from you!
Heeeeey bud! Good to see you are still keeping the lights on, which is awesome! Never let it die! Knightmare is timeless, and as per yearly tradition, I am about to embark on my usual consumption. Usually begins 1st September every year, because autumn/winter would never feel right without a binge of some good old Knightmare.
As the topic title suggests, has there been any dedicated attempts to restore old Knightmare footage to 1080p HD quality? Or is that a kind of no no here on the forums? Has it been attempted before (I haven't been able to dig up anything via the search function)?
No attempt has been made to my knowledge.
I'm also not entirely sure how this would be possible since even copies of the original transmissions from ITV would only be at 480p. My understanding is that you'd need to obtain the original raw film footage and digitally re-scan it in order to produce it at 1080p. You could try and digitally upscale it, but the results are likely to be awful.
A further problem that you'd have are that the effects would need to be recreated otherwise you'd have a horrific clash of resolutions.
Absolutely, and funnily enough after making the topic yesterday, I researched a bit more last night on what was out there, as it's been quite a while since I have had an in-depth search for Knightmare content on the internet. I was both completely saddened, yet also motivated, when I had seen ITV themselves had uploaded some snippets to Youtube, in glorious 1080p quality, and boy did it look GOOOOD! As clear as you could want and buttery smooth. A show as fantastic as Knightmare, does not deserve to be watched at 480p, heck, even worse at 240p, which I had seen other videos had been uploaded as. I guess that's what those DVD copies I have are (I think I picked them up in the mid 2000s, all recorded from Challenge).
You are absolutely right, in beginning a process like this, the best base footage you can have starting off, will determine the ultimate end quality of each episode. If I were to begin, I would want to have a look at all available footage, and take it from there. I actually never considered any issues such as particle and lighting effects that Knightmare has, so that would be something to add to the list. But I have been working on restoration and upscaling for the best part of a decade now, and results have indeed been varied. Usually good, and better than the original footage, but not without a lot of work and fine tuning. Techniques can vary depending on the type of footage, from VHS restoration, to old 480p/720p being upscaled to HD, and in some cases, even 4K.
My process has been fairly straightforward, using Sony Vegas Pro, combined with some expert (and expensive!) plugins, such as Boris Complete Compendium (BCC), which has a very good UpRes section to it. I invested in it quite a while ago, due to owning a video game fan brand and community. UpRes does a hell of a lot of work, and right away, I would be curious to see how it handles Knightmare footage.
However, as recent as in the past year, there have been some significant advances in restoration/upscaling technology, primarily involving AI techniques from Google (Gigapixel). I have had a very brief look at it a few months ago, and it was slightly off putting, due to the fact that I am not great with maths, and some calculations are required for the AI software. It's not impossible though, I just haven't had the proper motivation as of yet to fully explore it.
And, of course, you'd be infringing copyright. Although I daresay that Tim Child/ITV could probably be persuaded to license someone trying to do this for a fairly nominal fee if they got remastered versions out of it.
Oh absolutely, I would never dispute that I would be infringing copyright, which is not the intention I approach this with. I come at this with an attitude and desire of preservation only. It's coming up to 30 years since Knightmare ended it's series run on ITV, and whilst 2013 was great for both the last re-run on Challenge, as well as the Geek Week special, there have been no real advancements in terms of Knightmare preservation.
I should re-iterate at this point, that I am not a professional at all, and this is purely a private hobby project, with no intentions of any sort of monetary gain, or even public release at this point. I am a person who loves projects, and this has developed the passion to at the very least, explore it at this point. Even if it's on my own.
I was lucky enough to be here 8 years ago when Tim was kind enough to engage with us here on the forums, and I remember some of his comments and interactions. The limitations they encountered, and how a Knightmare resurrection would more or less be financially unviable. Also, that the best chance of getting old Knightmare episodes in good quality would be if another channel commissioned a repeat of all series. Something which hasn't been done since Challenge hosted a few episodes back in 2013 I believe? As much as that would completely negate the need for a project like this, as far as I can tell, Challenge doesn't even have a HD version of their channel. At least not on my Virgin set top box.
Also on that topic though, whilst of course I agree about all of the copyright issues, and consider myself a law abiding citizen, it is unfortunately the nature of the beast where we live in an on-demand/digital era, where everything is readily available at our fingertips. So whilst I wouldn't debate the legalities regarding copyright and IP infringements, that's what happens today in 2021.
I remember back years ago participating in a topic in regards to eBay bootleg copies of the entire show for sale (which I had bought long prior to the topic), and the general consensus was that was not cool due to being illegal. However at that time, I think there was also an active effort to get some sort of DVD collection released.
That's very much still the attitude.
People will generally turn a blind eye to taking a very very small portion of the show in order to do/make something new. But any wholesale use of episodes would need agreement from the powers that be.
Surly apart from DVD collections, a show being added to the ITV Hub would be a more realistic option? Either way since time has went by so quickly, and nothing at all coming to fruition, that's why I feel the need to do something. At least tinker privately on old episodes, just to see what the results are
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Welcome back and thanks for posting again. If you want to catch up on what you've missed, the website's year-by-year Events pages may help.
Although (as per the forum rules) your 20th August 13:09 post didn't link to any illegally shared copyrighted material (i.e. full episode uploads), nor express any support for it, the post was explicit about its existence and where to find it online. Being the official Knightmare website, that is something we are keen to avoid, so I've removed a few sentences from your post.
To our knowledge, the only legal uploads of full Knightmare episodes are the ones on BritBox.
As someone who's freely given time to celebrating and preserving Knightmare (and other CITV shows), I don't like seeing people try to make money out of it, whether it's through episode uploads with adverts, bootleg DVDs or unlicensed merchandise. Enjoyment of Knightmare should be its own reward. We were very grateful that crowdfunding enabled our Knightmare Convention to take place in 2014; and when we found we'd made a profit, it was donated to charity.
I was both completely saddened, yet also motivated, when I had seen ITV themselves had uploaded some snippets to Youtube, in glorious 1080p quality
Indeed, these are the 600+ clips from Series 1 and 3-8 on the official ITV Children's Classics YouTube channel, many of which are embedded on this website. This is a thread about them, including a link to my YouTube channel where I organised them into chronological playlists.
Of the quests covered by the clips, there are some imperfections - inconsistent aspect ratios; special effects (e.g. skull ghosts) that haven't made it through from the original footage; sound not synced - but it's great to have so much Knightmare material legally available in high quality clip form.
Also, that the best chance of getting old Knightmare episodes in good quality would be if another channel commissioned a repeat of all series. Something which hasn't been done since Challenge hosted a few episodes back in 2013 I believe?
There don't seem to have been any Knightmare repeats on Challenge since 2016.
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Welcome back and thanks for posting again. If you want to catch up on what you've missed, the website's year-by-year Events pages may help.
Although (as per the forum rules) your 20th August 13:09 post didn't link to any illegally shared copyrighted material (i.e. full episode uploads), nor express any support for it, the post was explicit about its existence and where to find it online. Being the official Knightmare website, that is something we are keen to avoid, so I've removed a few sentences from your post.
Hi Drassil! Ahhhh apologies, that's grand. Understandable also.
To our knowledge, the only legal uploads of full Knightmare episodes are the ones on BritBox.
As someone who's freely given time to celebrating and preserving Knightmare (and other CITV shows), I don't like seeing people try to make money out of it, whether it's through episode uploads with adverts, bootleg DVDs or unlicensed merchandise. Enjoyment of Knightmare should be its own reward. We were very grateful that crowdfunding enabled our Knightmare Convention to take place in 2014; and when we found we'd made a profit, it was donated to charity.
My posts, (and subsequently, this topic) I created without realising that Series 4 was on Britbox, which is an absolutely fantastic piece of news. A slot on a streaming service is the best way for Knightmare to carry on in the modern day 2020s. Here's hoping they put the rest of the series' on there to complete the collection, as its the easiest and best (also legal!) way to consume Knightmare. With it being Britbox, it can make it easier also to make your voice heard though social media for them to do so. Nothing' ever impossible, and this is coming from someone who campaigned for 10 years to get the video game Shenmue III back from the grave (albeit through Kickstarter).
On that though, it did strike me as odd that their main banner for Knightmare is from the last season, with Treguard and Majida, which is out of context with the season they have on offer. Could this be because they are just drip feeding the additions of new seasons? Or is it just because thats the best quality promotional material they have that could be used on the Britbox page?
I was both completely saddened, yet also motivated, when I had seen ITV themselves had uploaded some snippets to Youtube, in glorious 1080p quality
Indeed, these are the 600+ clips from Series 1 and 3-8 on the official ITV Children's Classics YouTube channel, many of which are embedded on this website. This is a thread about them, including a link to my YouTube channel where I organised them into chronological playlists.
Of the quests covered by the clips, there are some imperfections - inconsistent aspect ratios; special effects (e.g. skull ghosts) that haven't made it through from the original footage; sound not synced - but it's great to have so much Knightmare material legally available in high quality clip form.
Ah fantastic, thank you! I will check that out later tonight. I did notice that with the ones I had seen on Youtube, particularly with the stretching. Also the quality does seem better than what Britbox offers, so the more I ponder it, they have been worked on by someone at ITV. The stretching of the aspect ratio does perplex me a little, I cant fathom why they would do that. I did notice also, the interlacing issues with the Skull Ghost on the Britbox episodes I have watched before. But I mean.... it's not a criticism of any kind. It's just the way it is really, and certainly doesn't diminish the enjoyment of an episode.
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Good to see you back Peter!
Yes, it is indeed wonderful that we now have a legal and hopefully permanent way to watch Knightmare again.!
Here's hoping that this is just a litmus test for the eventual adding of the other series...
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