Phrases used in Knightmare
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is root and fern a phrase used by elves to show surprise and shock or is it an elf version of swearing?
I think that the phrase used by Pickle is "rook and fen!" - a rook is a scavenging bird similar to a crow, and a fen is a type of wetland; there are some famous ones in the East of England.
I think it's a reasonable assumption that Pickle is just using nature-related words as an exclamation of surprise. It also rhymes with "glen", as in "there's something stirring in this...".
AAAAAHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.................. that's what he's doing........ showing surprise............ I couldn't picture Pickle swearing......... that's why when I was so shocked when I was told he was........ I was also told that Pickle swears like a trooper by the same person..... guess Pickle would call him a stupid fool for winding me up....
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Thanks for contributing to this thread, you guys - I wasn't sure if anyone would respond!
A thread like this is not for everyone, but there's more than enough room on this discussion forum of ours for it and I for one enhance my appreciation of Knightmare by joining in. Since most of our theories cannot easily be proved or disproved, and we are all capable of approaching Knightmare with a sense of humour too, I don't see that it does any harm. If we chase thirty deeper meanings and only find one, for me it is still highly rewarding.
Of course, it could just be random sounding magical words that occurred to/were heard by Clifford/Tim.
I think this would be closer to the truth and would be most likely!
The words themselves may well be random, though names and spells in Knightmare do tend to have a basis in existing languages.
Perhaps it's worth adding that a lot of the Latin sounding words in Knightmare were genuine Latin. There were also authentic literary references throughout the series (Shakespeare, Marlowe, Dante, Carroll, Tolkien - the Knightmare Lexicon has details). There's also evidence of at least one Knightmare character being partly named after a real person who was close to the production. I think it's too easy to dismiss absolutely everything as made up. The same goes for the Knightmare gamebooks, which contain some fun but subtle in-jokes of their own.
Also, what's the origin of "Caras carom" and does it have a literal translation? He uses that to express a range of emotions including frustration, horror and delight.
I remember Robin/Mashibinbin once suggesting that the residence of Hordriss could be called Castle Carascaram. (We had Hordriss planned as a Knightmare RPG character at one point.) Whenever I try to consider the origin of the phrase, I end up imagining Hordriss singing along to The Pink Panther theme.
This thread might be a useful place to note some of Knightmare's other mysterious incantations. Here are a few that come to mind. My phonetics are only approximate.
Morghanna in Series 3, preparing to zap Martin: "Dahrius ivah. An end to the quest"
Lord Fear in Series 6, freezing Matt: "Epassipum vaydellum"
Lord Fear in Series 8, turning Maldame to stone: "Zalas caranaffa"
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This thread might be a useful place to note some of Knightmare's other mysterious incantations. Here are a few that come to mind. My phonetics are only approximate.
Morghanna in Series 3, preparing to zap Martin: "Dahrius ivah. An end to the quest"
Lord Fear in Series 6, freezing Matt: "Epassipum vaydellum"
Lord Fear in Series 8, turning Maldame to stone: "Zalas caranaffa"
Yes, I often wonder about those incantations too! (Morghanna's could definitely be borrowed from somewhere in the real world.) The one by Lord Fear that sounds to me like "Epacsepom vedelos" starts with ESCAPE backwards (which the clue scroll explicitly tells them to reverse), so it feels like the rest of it should have some meaning as well, but perhaps they just tried to make it into something Latin-sounding. "Vedelos" could possibly have an origin in Portuguese or Spanish - it seems that "vede" is a subjunctive form of "I impede", and "los" means "them" - but I'm not at all convinced that's where it came from!
I transcribed Lord Fear's other spells as "Zalash caralam" (turns Maldame to stone), "Zash caram" (displays Bhal-Shebah on his screen) and "Caram gar" (speeds up the Corridor of Blades). They seem to have some common elements, and feel more made-up than the Latin-esque ones. But who knows.
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Also, what's the origin of "Caras carom" and does it have a literal translation? He uses that to express a range of emotions including frustration, horror and delight.
I remember Robin/Mashibinbin once suggesting that the residence of Hordriss could be called Castle Carascaram. (We had Hordriss planned as a Knightmare RPG character at one point.) Whenever I try to consider the origin of the phrase, I end up imagining Hordriss singing along to The Pink Panther theme.
I transcribed Lord Fear's other spells as "Zalash caralam" (turns Maldame to stone), "Zash caram" (displays Bhal-Shebah on his screen) and "Caram gar" (speeds up the Corridor of Blades). They seem to have some common elements, and feel more made-up than the Latin-esque ones. But who knows.
It may be worth noting that čarati means "to cast a spell, practise sorcery" in Serbo-Croat, with the second- and first-person forms being čaraš and čaram.
Merlin uses the exclamation "Spells and incantations!" at one point, so perhaps Hordriss' phrase means something similar?
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And finally... does anyone know if the "Ooooh, naaasty" catchphrase was borrowed from Leslie Phillips in The Navy Lark (consciously or otherwise)? It may just be coincidence, but their delivery is so similar, I'm wondering if Hugo Myatt was a fan!
Hugo has answered this question himself now! (Page 50.)
https://www.flipsnack.com/5B7D5F6BDC9/suffolk-norfolk-life-november-2020.html
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This thread might be a useful place to note some of Knightmare's other mysterious incantations. Here are a few that come to mind. My phonetics are only approximate.
Morghanna in Series 3, preparing to zap Martin: "Dahrius ivah. An end to the quest"
Lord Fear in Series 6, freezing Matt: "Epassipum vaydellum"
Lord Fear in Series 8, turning Maldame to stone: "Zalas caranaffa"
Yes, i wondered if Morghanna's exclamation was an authentic name/phrase from an ancient language.
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And finally... does anyone know if the "Ooooh, naaasty" catchphrase was borrowed from Leslie Phillips in The Navy Lark (consciously or otherwise)? It may just be coincidence, but their delivery is so similar, I'm wondering if Hugo Myatt was a fan!
Hugo has answered this question himself now! (Page 50.)
https://www.flipsnack.com/5B7D5F6BDC9/suffolk-norfolk-life-november-2020.html
Thank-you for posting this link. That's a really interesting interview and great to know where he got the "Ooooh naaaasty!" from.
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And finally... does anyone know if the "Ooooh, naaasty" catchphrase was borrowed from Leslie Phillips in The Navy Lark (consciously or otherwise)? It may just be coincidence, but their delivery is so similar, I'm wondering if Hugo Myatt was a fan!
Hugo has answered this question himself now! (Page 50.)
https://www.flipsnack.com/5B7D5F6BDC9/suffolk-norfolk-life-november-2020.html
For anyone who'd like to hear Leslie Phillips saying "Ooh nasty" in The Navy Lark, search for 'Commander Murray and the Squatters' (Series 11 Episode 1) on a popular video sharing website and listen to the first minute.
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I'm interested in the phrase the Gruagach screams when Treguard is attacking the catacombite in the book, "Ughrgis ar calibrahm" (described as "an ancient tongue"). Completely made up, or based on some existing real or fictional language? Does it mean something? Is it an anagram I've failed to work out?!
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According to Google Translate, it might be Hindi, although it can't find an actual translation for it.
More helpfully, keep an ear open for a Temporal Discussion podcast coming soon; we're speaking to a certain someone who might just know the answer, so we'll put this one to him for you.
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I transcribed Lord Fear's other spells as "Zalash caralam" (turns Maldame to stone), "Zash caram" (displays Bhal-Shebah on his screen) and "Caram gar" (speeds up the Corridor of Blades). They seem to have some common elements, and feel more made-up than the Latin-esque ones. But who knows.
Having noted the many similarities between Lord Fear and Sauron, it occurred to me recently that his Series 8 incantations might be intended to resemble Black Speech, which has the same kind of harsh sounds (and includes "ash" among the few words Tolkien invented). Tim seemingly included a few bits of Elvish in Knightmare, so this feels quite plausible.
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If I forget to refer to this on Temporal Discussion S8E2, I'll be furious with myself.
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Having noted the many similarities between Lord Fear and Sauron, it occurred to me recently that his Series 8 incantations might be intended to resemble Black Speech, which has the same kind of harsh sounds (and includes "ash" among the few words Tolkien invented).
Interestingly we see this again in Lords Of The Game where Lord Fear's name is Veerash - very Orkish-sounding! (His middle name less so, haha.)
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I will need to look it up. But I have a stack of Clifford Norgate’s scripts and in some cases I seem to recall him rewriting the spells.
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I will need to look it up. But I have a stack of Clifford Norgate’s scripts and in some cases I seem to recall him rewriting the spells.
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I'll see if I can dig that specific one out. We're putting together longer term plans for the scripts.
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