Series 3 - Episode 8
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Hi this is my first post. ;D
I was also going to mention this as the room that team came into is probably one of the hardest of all eight series and to come up against it on only the second screen of level of three seems slightly fishy.
Extra irregularaties for the appearance of Morganna or Malice or whatever she was called as they had met old Moggy on the bridge in level two and he explicitly said they would meet again. Seems rather strange to have two uber villans in one quest.
Of all the teams that nearly made it through series three I would have liked this one to have got to the end in the slim hope of seeing an epic confrontation against Mogdred.
Lastly the team took absolutley ages to get moving in the room and only started shuffling forward at Treguard's insistence as the axe was nearly upon them.
I wouldn't mind asking Tim Child about this death. If it really was a mistake or it was forced? :-X
PS Did the dungeoneer have a neck problem? As several times on camera he was slumped in very awkward positions.
That'll do for a first post.
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Hmm, I seem to recall talking about this in a post when Series 3 was first repeated. I think that then we all seemed to draw the conclusion that he sidestepped the wrong way and simply fell off.
It's interesting that a sinister element has been introduced here. Yes, it is true that the room used on level 3 was extremely difficult and to my memory I think that it was the only time it was ever used. However, as unfortunate as it is, there was no excuse for a team (especially in the first 3 series) choosing left over right and expecting an easy ride. I also disagreed with this policy when I was younger but the producers of Knightmare seriously believed in employing the 'sinister' and 'dextor' approach to left and right in most cases and by series 3 everyone should have twigged that going left was not the thing to do. Why else did EVERY team in series 3 choose the right-hand path when presented with no other information?
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However, as unfortunate as it is, there was no excuse for a team (especially in the first 3 series) choosing left over right and expecting an easy ride. I also disagreed with this policy when I was younger but the producers of Knightmare seriously believed in employing the 'sinister' and 'dextor' approach to left and right in most cases and by series 3 everyone should have twigged that going left was not the thing to do.
I've read somewhere (possibly a quest review in The Eye Shield?) that this team picked left because there was a trail of bones leading from the mine cart all the way up to the right-hand door. This certainly looks to be the case, and I don't think in series 3 that they were quite so harsh on killing people off for taking the left- instead of right-hand door. Several teams do it and don't appear to end up in a particularly difficult room as a result. However, later on Martin clearly steps over the bones on his way through the right-hand door, and he doesn't come to any immediate harm, either.
A lot of the quests had one-off rooms or challenges, some of which turned out to be more difficult than others. One team got floating skulls all over them in the level 1 room that is the beam room, but with 95% of the floor already missing, and ended up dying as a result. This team got a very narrow path to cross. The axe wasn't in any hurry to hit them, I think it was just trying to make them hurry up too much and make a mistake. But I think they were very unlucky to have been judged to have stepped off; plenty of other teams were far closer to (or even blatantly off) the path without dying.
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If Ross had taken the right-hand door then I suspect we would have seen some Cavernwights in the next room, along with a lot of bones! I wonder why going left was like "abandon hope all ye who enter here". Maybe it's something to do with the myth that the devil stands at your left side, therefore in Knightmare chambers to the left will be evil? The only time someone went left was when The Oracle told Leo "when faced with death, you must go left". That was unusual...
Valiant - yep, I noticed that Ross seemed to hunch over a bit too.
Did anyone see the "funny mouth" that Leo put on when he was walking down a blue Dwarf Tunnel? It's when the angle changes to show him facing the camera, if you look you see him putting his top lip down over his bottom one!
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I think the reason he hunched over was so that he could talk into the microphone in his shirt. Maybe he didn't want to speak loudly or something....
I think the production crew or whoever were in two minds about letting him off dying as well - note that he only drops into the pit on his second step. I personally think he should have been let off, seeing as he was only fractionally off the ledge (others have been let off for worse). Although they did deserve to get hacked by the axe for taking too damn long to decide to head for the door...it would have been interesting to hear what the advisors were saying...
"Shall we head for the door?"
"No"
"What shall we do?"
"Lets sit here and look at the pretty graphics"
"But what about the axe?"
"Good point"
"Lets go then"
"Righto"
"You guide him"
"No, you do it"
etc etc ::)
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it would have been interesting to hear what the advisors were saying...
They seemed to be wondering if they could go up the path on the left-hand side of the screen; the perspective in that room is odd, but it did look like there was a path up there that would've been far easier to cross, but whether it led anywhere or not I don't know. I suspect not.
Velda:***
I wonder why going left was like "abandon hope all ye who enter here"***
I'm guessing it's because the latin for left and right is 'sinister' and 'dexter' respectively (from 'dexter' we obviously derive words like 'dexterity"). Being left-handed was often considered to be freakish or unnatural, which is where we get the meaning behind the modern-day usage of 'sinister'. Therefore, left is bad and right is good.
Or something.
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Intresting,
But the team who just died took a coupke of left doors and ended up in a few nasty rooms (bomb room being one of them) But because of the bones leading to that door is more reason to use it, for a start its giveing a guide as to where to go, and 2nd u wont beat the castle of u try to take short cuts or hide from its damgers. But i still don't believe he walked off the cliff.
and Mogdred didn't fool anyone
i would have liked to have seen the rest of this quest. -
[quote]and 2nd u wont beat the castle of u try to take short cuts or hide from its damgers.
No; that approach only worked a couple of times in series 8.
Seriously though, I actually found it hard to judge whether he was off the edge or not because the path turns so that we are looking at it from almost sideways on.
Also, both of the other teams that made it to level 3 ignored the bones and went through the right hand door to an easier chamber; it's not as though they formed a physical barrier.
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I don't think it was THAT unfair... not to say I don't think it was unfair. A sidestep to the left could've spelled his safety there. However, that platform was sidewards on - how were we supposed to know what was safe and what was not?
Maybe an oversight on the production team's part, I doubt we'll ever know.
Or maybe they just didn't have any trophies left over and had to hold off winners until they'd minted some more...
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The ledge of Ross' death was particularly momentous in my KM viewing, because it's the earliest death, that, before I came across S3 again, I could vividly remember (tender age of 5). I agree that I don't think it particularly savage - the causeways in later years and the fire-chambers required some shrewd direction, and, nearly making it through, team 6 showed that it wasn't impossible - just a bit of panic I assume led them to go on a little further. Looking at the room closely, I think it's just about clear to see the pathway move further away - that is, requiring the dungeoneer to move to his left before the exit.
I don't blame the team for choosing left. If I remember rightly, various hauntings appeared rather quickly and shepherded them to lead Ross to the left, as the right hand side of the room was quickly guarded. There's also no way of knowing whether they would have been met the same chamber had they taken the right hand door - since Morgahnna was present and obviously expecting them.
A further point is that with the relative, and often brilliant 'severity' of series 3 - killing off teams who showed any sign of incompetence in level 1, if they didn't expect many teams to reach level 3, and had this wonderfully created narrow ledge cavern to use, it certainly would have been a shame not to have seen it at all. Not impossible, and so well valid.. and certainly memorable.
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If the advisors talk for too long and can't decide (or start an argument with eachother!) the extrenuous material is cut in post-production to keep the length of each show the same.
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Nods. Absolutely.
For keeping show length the same - they would otherwise have timed out earlier, I would have thought - but, certainly, there's a poise on the balance of advisors' communications. Viewers watch it for the action, and not so much the arguments, so it's always been in best interests to trim any surplus talking down.
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The teams don't "time out" at all during recording - for all intents and purposes, they have a continuous quest with no breaks aside from those needed to set up new rooms. The beginning and ending bits are recorded later and edited in. That's why the advisors are always pointing at the screen or talking amongst themselves, when they freeze, instead of just waiting for the freeze to occur.
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I know - just really did not explain myself well - my way with words is lost this week. I can't even face trying to concoct what I was thinking before - altho I think it might have been valid - or even not. The thought of teams 'timing out' during the filming is quite absurd really.
Promise that wasn't what I meant.The only way to accommodate more footage (i.e. advisors' arguments and discussions), and keep programme length the same would have been to summount extra episodes, which was not possible. Thus, editing must have had to truncate the footage as neatly as possible to allow scheduling. I think that's slightly more on-cue - I'll edit it if I wake up soon and read my rubbish.
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Ja, that made more sense... Sorry about the really long explanation, but I like explaining stuff.
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Began on the Spindizzy this episode. I wonder how they get the dungeoneer set up for the spindizzy - place him on the centre and then start it rotating? Also, the spindizzy is clearly not blue, so why don't they ask the dungeoneer if they could see the edge of the disc before making him jump off?
Encountered the raven thing again, and he gave the 3rd 'step' clue. Only gave it once though, so had to listen carefully at all times!
Two skulls usually haunt the Corridor of Spears in this series, but rarely harm the dungeoneer. I wonder if they added the skulls in this room to give more of a challenge?
Nearly stepped off the edge in Merlin's room before invoking the 2nd step! Got a bit stuck on the 3rd step though, having to figure out how to invoke 'crown' - eventually had to mime putting it on!
I liked Merlin sleeping when he appeared, and having to be awakened by treguard!
Merlin used a VIM spell to restore the life force. Probably good to use such a short spell, given how long it takes him to spellcast!
Almost went left in the goblin-infested Corridor of Catacombs, but managed to take the right door in the end. Then used the TWIST spell to turn some upside-down doors the correct way round. Notice that only the 3 end doors twist, not the whole room.
Then encountered McGrew who tried to attack them, but a bit of swift-talking saved them and McGrew came with the dungeoneer.
Small glitch in the videotape on the bridge scene. They encountered Mogdred (who was dressed as a hooded monk), and he put a TOAD spell on McGrew! The team had to disspell it, and McGrew became their friend after that.
Is it just me, or did McGrew nearly walk off the edge of the cave (where a dungeoneer fell once) when fighting off the bats? In the next bit of cave, collected a food item and a letter F, while McGrew fought off a magic sword
Next part of the cavern, the magic sword returned as well as a goblin hunting party! McGrew fought off the sword then guided them out fairly quickly!
Unusually, a force field was visible over the door of the mine cart room. I liked how they tried to ask McGrew to push him, and McGrew thought he just wanted a push by himself (not the mine cart). Finally managed to get in the mine cart and through the force field, and after a bumpy ride, into Level 3!
They decided to take the left door because there was a trail of bones leading to the right door! However, that might have been their downfall - they got into a room which seemed almost impossible to get across, especially with a magic axe!
Might have been okay in the French or Spanish episodes, where the dungeoneer could just be 'replaced' in the next room, but here they walked off the bridge and died!
I still think they could have got across by lining him up properly before going forward.
Oh no, timed out just as the next team was rolling the dice!
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Started on the spindizzy and went for the door with Melly over it. I think they hit the floor, but were let off.
The raven began to insult us all and they tried to take steps by offering a handshake to it.
Through the Corridor of Spears to Merlin where they took steps and scored 2/2. Liked the knightcap.
Used the TWIST spell they earned to bring the doors in the next room down to the floor, not that the side ones
stayed on the ceiling.
MacGrew appeared and began to guide them. They met Mogdred dressed a Cedric or at least some monk.
Turned MacGrew into a TOAD but they dispelled.
MacGrew couldnay fin the way oot, bu the did find the team the F and some food. Liked the way MacGrew
had to fight off the Sword. Don't think he was supposed to get off the wrong side!
Past goblins before our second minecart sequence and second glimpse of level 3.
First spotting of Morganna. An axe appeared which chased the team across a narrow ledge. This was a bit
harsh, as far as I could see they were on the path.
I missed if this team were DISMISSed or UNITEd? But
seen as they got to level 3 DISMISSal would be harsh.
The new team had the rare honour of appearing on the credits.
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This was a bit
harsh, as far as I could see they were on the path.
Yeah, I always think that too whenever I see this episode. A cruel ending indeed, and I wish they'd had a chance to get further because I'm sure they could've won. Perhaps that would've been unfair to the other dungeoneers in this series whose teams were much better, though.
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I'll repost my thoughts about this team's death from an older post I made:
Ross's team made one crucial mistake at the end, which definately contributed to their downfall (geddit?)- When the magic axe appeared, instead of guiding Ross across the ledge as quickly as possible, they just sat there for 20 seconds thinking what to do! By the time they started moving, the axe was much closer to Ross that if they'd got a move on earlier, which caused the team to panic a bit, and forget to tell Ross to stop in front of the door until it was too late. Still, they did well!
I loved the transparent life force animation (without the red background), and Treguard's line in the dice room: "Life is not all braun and Broadsword"!
An episode thread was created for this episode on it's original Challenge transmission, but it crosses over into Episodes 9 and 10.
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