Wonder if the footage is still available somewhere! By the way, as I recall, Treguard introduced the scene by referring to the 'Sword of Damocles'.

The sword froze after the 2.5 minutes - either the animation was on a loop (no supercomputers in the studio during Series 4) and the production team paused it, or it reached the end.

I think this first team of Series 4 are my personal favourite - obviously only if we have to exclude ourselves!

Thanks pjmlfc05! You're from Hampshire, too?

The producer came in chuckling after that scene and saying he hadn't had so much fun in years.

The reason I went into overdrive in that room is we'd already seen it once (but not over and over again like viewers at home!) and I knew what was coming! I'm not convinced the random moving of the blocks from the right was fair. Maybe it was never intended to be though. We didn't know it was called 'The Block and Tackle' until we watched earlier episodes of Series 4.

Even if this has been brought up before, no harm doing this again! My fav teams are as follows:

Series 1 - Team 3 (Simon)

Series 2 - Team 6 (Akash)

Series 3 - Team 11 (Martin)

Series 4 - Team 8 ( Giles)

Series 5 - Team 4 (Ben)

Series 6 - Team 5 (Ben)

Series 7 - Team 7 (Barry)

Series 8 - Team 2 (Daniel)

Thank you for your vote!!! Glad you enjoyed our quest.

dunno why everyone says it is unworkable. get down and crawl! there easy sorted and if nto thought of then pretty high chance of dungeoneer death. or if they set up a ledge for the dungeoneer to walk on in the shape of that path then it would just be about timing as the dungeoneer wouldnt step off the bridge. seems such a shame that it wasnt used as it looks so cool

We had this room at the start of Level 3. It took us 2.5 minutes to get Giles halfway across the causeway - yes, crawling. The production team decided it was just too long; we offered to have another go at it but the floor manager was firm in his opinion that the room was unserviceable. I always thought the problem was the lack of turning space on the corners.

Thank you to Pooka and the others who have joined me in musing about the TINY spell. The producer said there were about four scenes left, without checking the script to be precise.

This suggests there could have been the fireplace scene from earlier in S4 on L2 (scenes moved between levels rather freely on S4) whereby Giles had to escape Mogdred by the TINY spell, and then perhaps have it uncast on the other side. Or v.v. - going small to get through the fireplace only to face Mogdred and having to work out to uncast it possibly to scare him away (not entirely convincing an idea though). This would leave the door monster scene and the final scene with the Cup.

Alternatively casting the TINY spell would parallel what happened with Malice on the winning team's quest. Maybe the Block and Tackle was moved from Level 2 to make the end of the season more dramatic, and actually an encounter with Mogdred parallel to that in team one's quest was the original plan.

I think it's finely balanced between those two probabilities.

It could be something else entirely though, probably not a hobgoblin given the locations we did see but possibly a scene that wasn't shown on the series. It seems to me that locations were a bit thin on the ground by Level 3 though in Series 4.

I thought the sequence of animations including the giant lizard and through the first few locations in Level 2 was one of the better ones of this series. Some of the guiding on Level 2 was quite erratic, not least on the Block and Tackle. Not that I can talk! We weren't even told the name of the room until we watched the rest of the series when it was broadcast. I think the Merlin questions were too hard but I've said elsewhere that with hindsight the puzzles were uneven and sometimes plain unfair.

In reply to Kieran, we did complete the Transporter pad room. It was the Adventurer's Code that advised the right-hand path, at least the version of the Code we read for Series 4. So our approach was to choose right in the absence of any specific reason to the contrary. Again, we didn't go right twice in the Transporter pad room (and by the way, the feet shot was from a previous quest but on ours we did see Giles' feet) and end up on the knight. You just can't generalise from me saying 'Right then?' as though we indiscriminately chose to go right: rather, it was clear to me that either path would have not landed us on the knight to begin with.

Being allowed to finish that scene seems a good compromise between the cost of studio time and offering something to us beyond the strict cut-off time. As I have said a couple of times in the forum, I would like to know what the Tiny spell would have been used for specifically. The producer said he thought there were four more scenes and would have to check the script. I didn't get the impression he wouldn't have told us what the next scenes would have held, but I didn't ask at the time.

On the subject of codes, our contract specifically mentioned the possibility of an end-of-series curtailment, and we were informed we were unlikely to have time to finish the quest about halfway through Level 2.

In terms of whether we were winning, it's really hard to say because technically we made a wrong choice on Level 1, looking for a 'works' into which to throw the spanner and running out of side exits. They let us off on the grounds that they always 'allow one Level 1 [mistake]'. Whether you think there should have been a pseudo-physical mechanism into which to throw the spanner or you think (as I've later realised) that the corridor itself could be construed as the works in a magical sense, it just shows how people see things can affect the outcome as much as logic, communication and teamwork. Ask Season 4 Team 1, I guess!

At that time they still had our backup team on standby, so let's assume we were 'fairly' allowed to continue (partly, I think, because I said 'throw the spanner down the corridor' - in exasperation at not finding said 'works').

Corridor of Blades - the production team checked it through; that was really close but we survived it.

Block and Tackle - strictly we would have died here on the first take (this explains the panic on the second take!), but then how fair is it to make the dungeoneer enter at 45 degrees with four large steps? The floor fell away while we were turning Giles to the correct angle. Had we been facing the same way as Team 1 (i.e. straight ahead) or not been so far into the room at the start (possibly due to Giles' enthusiasm) this might not have happened. Perhaps had this not been the end of the season, we would have faced the Block and Tackle on Level 2, as other teams did.

Door monsters - I think we scored 2 out of 3 on Level 2 (and Level 1, for that matter). So had the Level 3 door monster been put in for us to face, there's no guarantee we would have got 3 out of 3 - presumably the score required for Level 3.

I don't think the rest of the team were as disappointed to be so close and yet denied the chance of winning as they have since made out, at least at the time. Apparently at least one of them made a rude gesture when we were waving goodbye, which might explain why it wasn't shown - or perhaps the production team thought the scenery didn't look wintery enough. We also filmed an alternative 'goodbye' for international distribution, when it's not Christmas.

Looking back I can't say we definitely would have won. I do say the Block and Tackle wasn't fair, which I probably wouldn't have thought at the time. Does it matter if Knightmare is fair? Not unless the previous series have given you the expectation that it normally is fair, or should be, or is intended to be. Comparing Knightmare to life sounds worthy but, for me, is really beside the point for a television gameshow! Those last few scenes were a lot of fun, Giles' responses were generally very rapid and accurate, we enjoyed the experience and clearly it was memorable for a lot of fans.

P.S. Did I say I'd love to know specifically what the TINY spell was for?

I've just been considering parallels between Series 4 Team 1 and our quest.

We were told there were about four scenes left, which would fit the two scenes for shrinking and de-shrinking that occurred earlier in the series on Level 2 (e.g. to escape from Mogdred by using the TINY spell and then reversing it on the other side), plus the door monster scene and the final room with the Cup.

However comparing Series 4 Team 1's quest suggests that perhaps the Block and Tackle scene was moved from Level 2 to Level 3 to make the last episode more exciting. In that case, perhaps the TINY spell was to be used on Mogdred directly (presumably he would also have faded away rather than remaining in the room as we manoeuvred towards the exit). It would not require moving the fireplace scenes from Level 2, although the scenes in Series 4 did tend to be fluid in terms of the Levels on which they occurred. Again in this scenario there would be about four more scenes, namely three: the door monster, the final encounter with Mogdred and the final room with the Cup.

Comparing Series 4 Team 1 with us on the Block and Tackle, I think it's much easier if the stage manager doesn't enter the dungeoneer at 45 degrees to the left taking 'four large steps', but I still think the room is pretty unfair - just like many of the general knowledge riddles in Knightmare - because of the bottom row of blocks crossing the room without any discernible pattern.

On the news of John Woodnutt passing, I would add that he showed his professionalism in refusing my request for his Mogdred voice in the studio canteen (prior to the onscreen encounter, by the way).

Presumably, had Series 4 Team 1 cast the BUT spell, they would then have had time to cast the TRANSFORMATION spell and turn Mogdred into a lizard (temporarily, of course), as happened to Brother Mace (I think it was), earlier in the series. Again I'm not sure this was a particularly fair test, even for Level 3. It seems too off-the-wall to quickly realise "I'll counter that magic sword with my BUT spell".

Series 4 has been criticised on this forum for being repetitive, but I agree with the producer who said it's not just new scenes, but what happens in a scene, that makes an adventure (when asked whether our quest featured any new scenes). I think the quality of the character interactions went up in series 4. Bear in mind, too, that we hadn't seen the rest of the series, so the whole thing was completely new to us.

I didn't dislike Lord Fear in the later series, but I found the constant spying scenes a bit annoying and trivial after a while, even though you can understand the production team wanting to introduce a counter-narrative to make the game more exciting.

My ideal series would be a mix of 3-5. I liked the idea of the dragon ride, Winteria and the ship (the latter two reminding me of CS Lewis for some reason), but I felt they weren't implemented convincingly enough at the time due to the technology and budget constraints. I agree series 4 was overly 'purple'; the colouring in the eye shield sequences was painfully over-altered. A combination of some of the series 3 scenes - particularly the three-part outdoors-like areas - with the forests, inn and river of series 4, plus some of the outdoors scenes from series 5, would be my favourite combination - fairly contained, but not overly.

Brett writes:

So it's now February 2013 and I have come to the conclusion that there isn't sufficient appetite for going to the effort of organising a reunion of our team, at least not at the moment.

I hope, in what I have contributed over recent weeks, that the most interesting, important, even intriguing aspects of our quest have been covered sufficiently. I'm not sure that a separate Q&A section is necessary, as one forum member suggested. I suspect they will find most of the answers if they read this thread and related episode threads carefully.

Also, for the record I'd like to point out that a stream of comments about the team previous to us - being Series 4 Team 7 - have been mingled with comments about our team on this thread.

Thank you and best wishes,

Brett

Brett writes:

I'm prepared to wait until 31st January 2013, but at the moment I'm not convinced there's sufficient interest to warrant arranging a meet up with our team.

On the subject of the Block and Tackle scene, I'd just like to add that after we got through on the programme take, there was much amusement in the studio, from the girl behind a camera angled at us to Treguard and members of the production team as they returned to the set!

Many thanks - and apologies, even - to those of you who expressed an interest in our meet up, even videoing it. At least we tried!

Best wishes

Brett

Brett writes:

Thank you very much for your encouragements, Drassil!

I suppose what I put about not minding does reflect how we all felt at the time of the recording.

Reflecting on it now with your help and that of others on the forum, the "you do want to be home for Christmas, don't you boys?" does seem a bit redolent of a public school of a bygone era. Maybe we should have said "Surely, Santa Claus - sorry, Merlin, we're not going to miss Christmas if we stay here another fifteen minutes or so to complete our quest, are we?!".

Also selective cutting of less action-packed moments might have enabled us to complete the quest on screen time - just like when the production team cut four minutes or so from our time on the Spindizzy room in episode 14.

But if Christmas isn't in keeping with the spirit of Knightmare, can we describe what that spirit is? Or was it just the way Christmas was handled?

I seem to recall that some blocks move once, and others move in a predictable fashion.

It gives the overall impression that the room is harder than it appears. Though of course, if you don't realise the significance of the fact that some blocks move only once, you might be tempted to think they're entirely random and simply bolt through the room without paying attention to the repetitive blocks that are avoidable if you take it more slowly.

What would give a team the chance to realise that significance? Maybe if the dungeoneer entered slowly on the right-hand side, facing the back wall? But on both takes the floor manager oriented Giles diagonally and instructed him to take four large steps, which placed him right where the floor started to collapse.

Brett writes:

On entering Level 3 we were faced with the swinging axe challenge. This lasted about five minutes with Giles moving extremely carefully and getting nearly halfway through before the axe stopped - either due to the production team stopping a loop or the animation sequence finishing. We offered to tackle it again but the production team were adamant it was impossible.

The corridor of blades was done in one take, possibly with some extra filming of Giles. It's difficult to judge distances when you have a 3D image superimposed onto a 2D one, e.g. when trying to determine whether Giles narrowly missed the blade or was clipped.

I think it was sometime after this scene - or possibly just before it - that the producer announced that he'd recalled our backup team with "So don't make any [more?!] mistakes!".

The block and tackle (we didn't know it had this name until we watched an earlier episode of the series) was done in two takes. In my view it's unfairly hard and significantly dependant on the angle and speed of entry - under the direction of the floor manager; I don't know how many takes the winning team were given.

It's difficult to know whether we would have completed the quest, bearing in mind the entertainment value of apparently stacking up the action scenes in Level 3 for the end of the series. Similarly we made what the producer termed a 'boo-boo' on Level 1 but I maintain the particular challenge wasn't the best ('Throw a spanner in the works' but we were looking in vain for the 'works'!) and - perhaps in recognition of that - the producer said they always allow one of those on Level 1 anyway.

We did complete the tranporter room! It took a long time for Giles to reappear.

The producer said he thought there were four scenes left; that he'd have to check the plan (although he didn't get back to us about it again). I'd like to know what the TINY spell was for.

I didn't mind not completing the quest. I was glad to have been spared the indignity of losing and we had lots of fun over the four days of recording (there were long breaks between most of the scenes). I think the rest of the team had similar sentiments.

Brett writes:

We didn't know it was called 'Block and Tackle' either when we did it! It was only through watching earlier Series 4 episodes that we learnt of that name. To us it was just the room where blocks flew across seemingly at random (though I think there was a pattern somewhere) and the floor fell away with very little notice or seeming logic - especially when you were faced with it live for the first time. Ideally there'd be practise sessions before a quest started with the same kinds of challenges; that would make it fairer in my opinion.

Brett writes:

It was the latter, Canadanne. As I recall, just before we filmed the Level 3 scene where Merlin reappeared, the floor manager said something like "So you're looking for a key ... do you know who it was for? ... [Merlin] ... Yes, it's no secret that it was Merlin. When you find the key, make sure Giles calls out his name (clearly?) (three times?)."

Brett writes:

Thanks for your kind words Drassil. We didn't meet Anthony, perhaps as team 7 returned on the previous Thursday to the Monday when we started filming.

We don't know what the rest of our quest would have entailed; I'd love to know what the TINY spell was for! The producer said he thought there were four scenes left, and that he'd have to check.

I've been amazed at the sense of injustice voiced on the forum regarding our quest ending. I was glad we were spared the indignity of losing and we had lots of fun. As far as I know, that was the sentiment we all shared. We never moaned that we were nearly there and we certainly never complained to the production team.

It's perhaps debatable but I think the Block and Tackle was unfairly hard, like the path-under-the-swinging-axe sequence, which even the production team agreed was impossible when they put us through it (at the beginning of Level 3?). Certainly such challenges are harder to actually face in the studio for the first time than to review at home! The Dungoneer Manual instructed us to opt for the right-hand path whenever the way ahead was unclear, but there was no time to observe any kind of pattern and then make a rational plan. It just seemed like the game environment was collapsing around Giles and we did what we could!

Somewhere on the forum someone has suggested that the blocks moved at random; in fact I think during the whole of series 4 the animations were pre-rendered and were strictly serial (with the exception of the Amiga-imposed graphics). Whether variations were prepared I don't know; I suspect not.

We did actually fail the Block and Tackle first time round ... what you saw is the second take. So I have sympathy for Anthony's team, but I thought they failed in the previous scene; hence the Block and Tackle. Whether any team - including the winning team - correctly solved the Block and Tackle on the first take, I don't know. As someone has said, the manner of entry could affect the outcome.

Team captain Brett writes:

During the Level one Merlin sequence when Giles picked up the Eye Shield our view was so detailed we could see the time on Giles' watch - 11.15 or so in the morning! I don't think it can be seen on the film, perhaps it was blurred out in post-production.

During the conveyor belt sequence we were looking out for some machinery - some works to 'throw the spanner in'. At length I just said 'Throw the spanner down the corridor'. The conveyor belt stopped. Then it reversed. Too late! There were no more side doors and so the conveyor belt continued to the end.

The producer - I don't know why in certain posts people make out he's been overly secretive about any details (be reasonable!) - come on and said 'we always allow one Level one boo-boo - and this was yours'. At this point we still had a London-based backup team (and would have until well into Level 3). In my opinion this challenge was too abstruse (where were the works?) - perhaps whoever came up with it was in the mindset of those early text-based adventure games with two-word entry (e.g. THROW SPANNER). It is possible that the TV crew shared this view of the challenge when it came down to the reality of it.

The producer also pointed out that I'd said the correct course of action ('throw the spanner down the corridor') and with re-filming of Giles we have what you've seen.

Next team was Giles's team. The first couple of scenes seemed to have been edited a lot, notice how quickly they decide what to do with the Spindizzy and get onto the 'cup' path!

Even Treguard's speech sounds edited "Now listen team cut Choose now, the quest..." etc. I think they cut out the bit with Treguard explaining about the place of choice and what the two paths are, as well as Pickle saying 'make them choose'.

Is this Challenge editing, or how the original was?

I have a feeling that the Place of Choice scene may have been cut slightly, due to Giles team being the last team of the series. I look forward to seeing episodes 15 and 16 on Monday and Tuesday and I presume that series 5 starts next Wednesday. Anyway back to the episode and I wonder if Jeremy would've got out of the B&T had the advisors directed him towards the right door or would he have been hit with a brick.

At the end of todays ep another cheeky comment from the announcer, reguarding hairloss. Don't understand what he was getting at though!

Team captain Brett writes:

Yes, it was cut. In real life we spent about five minutes negotiating the Spin dizzy.

Here's an update from Brett:

Location - This depends on interest. If it's to be a small gathering, we could make it in a pub in the area of the New Forest where the actor who played Treguard once lived. For larger numbers, we'll obviously have to consider one or more bigger venues.

Filming the reunion and recording a commentary on our quest - Both sound like great ideas. As for the location, we'll gauge interest then confer to make sure everyone in the team's up for it. I imagine they will be.

Waving goodbye - Giles' reason notwithstanding, I think they might have been able to blur or cut out any offensive gestures they noticed during post-production. We recorded more than one ending; the Floor Manager explained this was due to selling Knightmare to other countries - including the USA and Spain - where it would not necessarily be Christmas when the series ended. Perhaps the director felt the sunny background didn't really suit Treguard's "winter is closing in" rhetoric?

A message from the team captain:

Hi Knightmare fans,

In view of the staggeringly unabated fascination with Knightmare, we've been musing about having a get-together to review our quest with you. Have any burning questions you'd like us to answer face-to-face? Any what-ifs?

If you're up for this, send an email with your rough location and approximate party size to maud.lane@secretary.net and we'll take it from there ...

With very best wishes for 2013,

Brett