Knightmare VR Pilot Discussion
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My first niggle on the pilot...
Dwarf Tunnels - The music doesn't suit it at all, so i'm hoping that it's on being used as a "stand in" and it should be a bit darker.
Clue Room - Erm, my niggle here was the way they selected the objects. I was thinking maybe they could touch it and the object fades from the table and the icon fades onto the inventory?
Despair's Ice Block - We could barely see the Elf Maid inside of it, i'm not sure if that's our monitor or not, but maybe the ice could have a bit more transparency.
Audio - Every time the dungeoneer spoke, there was this annoying hiss... i don't think he wants to grow up and be lissard so i hope that get's fixed.
I do have another niggle, but not sure if this has already been discussed - Is there going to be a Helm of Justice or has that been skipped for the new Avatar format? I thought that they would have the helm on, but they would still be able to see due to the "magic of the helm" a bit like the adventure game books.
Spellcasting was pretty good, but maybe a little effects on the letters to fade them out when the spell activates with the music? They could just go "poof" in a cloud of gold smoke or something.
Otherwise, I'm impressed - good work by Tim and the TV crew there, and i hope it keeps up.
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Good thread this.
The original plan for the pilot sequence (NB NOT episode) was to have the dwarf tunnels fully interactive, with encounters, decisions (junctions), and perhaps some animated monsters (patrolling skeletrons, etc).
Sadly we just ran out of time and resource, so we used the tunnels models in a simple fashion with music as interstitials, to join the scenes (chambers) together.
There is no intention to do this is any production series, because in my view, while it provides continuity, it disprupts the narrative and decreases the tension.
So it was just a stog gap measure.
The original theme music isn't an Ed Welch problem. The rights are controlled by EMI music, and you can't haggle with them.
Similarly we didn't use a Life Force clock in the sequence because it was considered too brief to explain the function to people unfamiliar with Knightmare.
The presentation by the Goblin is also a one-off form and doesn't inidcate any inention of using him in this role in a subsequent series.
Hope this helps?
BVA
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Thanks, BVA! That helps a lot
I really, really like the idea of interactive tunnels without the cheesy music - understandably there would have been a limit on time and resources (though I forgot about that possibility ). To be perfectly honest the idea of gaming with absolutely no breaks from the danger which the old series dwarf tunnels used to give, in a way, does appeal to me
It's a pity about the theme tune - a take on the original would have been nice, but obviously not everything is possible
The jump from three advisors down to one was a little bit disappointing. Is there a possibility that the old team theme could come back? I used to like the idea of the kids having to work as a team and sort out disputes as well as use their knowledge.
The Helm of Justice is also a nostalgic idea - lots of people would recognise the whole horned job! It doesn't really need a practical purpose on the avatar though the 'protection from the magic within' would be a nice touch, just for the older audience
That's my winge over lol...
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That does explain a bit.
It would be nice to see a modern version of the corridor of blades. It would be a sort of thing that could be encorporated into the dwarf tunnels, so that if they went the wrong way in the tunnels they ended in a variation of the CoB. I like the idea of the dwarf tunnels being fully interactive as it worked well in series 6 & 7 of KM which had encounters and clue objects in.
What sort of life-force clock are you planning to use. Maybe the life-force could be illustrated by a helmet of justice? Provided it is not a pie I'm not too bothered.
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I want majida and tregaurd back. maybe in the antechamber they could be speaking from far away(using the avatar heads). hmmm i am wondering about how the team will be introduced into the antechamber. i really hope that it gets commisioned and a full series is made. it looks so good
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Just watched the pilot episode in full, which I enjoyed very much,
my favourite moments: despair's causeway, the music used for it, the 'slice me dice me' puzzle
Perhaps a harder version of 'slice me dice me' could be in level 2? Can't think of a catchy name, but (as you can probably guess) I was thinking of rising spikes instead of swinging axes. They would be quite unpredictable, and who knows, might impale a poor unsuspecting dungeoneer whilst he's leaping from platform to platform. Perhaps thats a bit too gory
I like Despair, he reminds me of a cross between the gargoyles from the early series and the ol' door monsters.
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OK, while the sequence is not nearly as bad as I feared, I think it needs a fair bit of tweaking. Basically, it's in an "almost there" state, but a few things make it not as coherent as it could be.
The music has been mentioned.
One of the points of Knightmare for me has always been team dynamics. The one advisor sort of lost that - especially as that girl never sounded unsure of anything! My advice would be to fit the dungeon out in VR, but have the antechamber exactly as it was from the original show, with Treguard and the team and an annoying assistant.
Lord Fear and Lissard were great - no complaints there. Although I miss the whole "put it down!!!" bit of the spyglasses.
One thing I didn't like was the fact that the dungeoneer seemed to have very little freedom to move. I think they should be able to use their hands - pick up and explore the items on the table. I didn't like the whole "just name the items and you'll have them" bit - it's like a jarring reminder that you're inside a giant computer game. If you have to do things like that for technical limitation (and original KM knew all about that!), explain them within the story somehow - use magic if you must
On the movement front, I'm wondering how much control the player gets of the character. It seemed very "we-face-90-degrees-at-all-times", like an old computer game. I don't know if that was the fault of the controlling kid, or if that's another technical hitch. Also, in the slice-me-dice-me room (which was excellent otherwise btw), the jumping seemed too precise - like he hit a jump key and had no chance of missing the target.
Ideally for me, the dungeoneer would wear a VR helmet and motion sensors - so their avatar could be mapped to their actual movement, and they'd actually have to make the physical jump, albeit in an empty room. That'd be very true to the spirit of KM, and would make the character feel much more organic and less stilted. Jumping would be nailbiting - would they make it? - instead of just a "do-we-know-the-right-word?".
Sorry to seem to criticise. What I'm trying to get across is, any technical limitation can be explained around - KM certainly has a legacy of that! But it needs tension. Suspense and the like. If this is just level one then fine, but I want a room where the challenge is either very hard and must be debated on what to do, or one where it's actually hard to physically complete the task. A variety of both on higher levels would be ace.
Overall, if this was the actual show as it stands then 6.5 out of 10. For a beta I won't rate it, but it shows a lot of promise. The tech is nearly there... now you need to recreate the whole KM atmosphere. And after seeing what you've done to the Opposition, I reckon you're up to the task!
Amorya
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I don't like the virtual idea at all, so this will probably be a worthless post. It just feels to me like two kids in the middle of nowhere not doing much, and because it's all "virtual" it is nowhere as real as the orginial Knightmare felt.
The least they could do is have the three advisors put back in place with Treguard looking at the virtual world through a monitor on a wall. Basically, the original Knightmare, just with "virtual reality" instead of the blue screen.
Although, forgetting the original Knightmare, it looks good, it'll definitely be commissioned, though I don't see it lasting more than a series.
I hope we see items being put into a knapsack rather than moving to the top of the screen. The thing that they see Lord Fear through looks weird. The spyglass made sense and the name "spyglass" was ideal for it.
The lack of the helmet of justice lessens the advisor's role in it all. Without advisors giving directions it's going to be quiet a lot of the time and therefore less interesting. I'm sure the kids could easily get bored by that and turn over to see what else is on.
The way the dungeoneer was walking was rather camp, and that reminds me... I don't like hearing the term "avatar" when the word "dungeoneer" is fine, because it makes the game seem less dungeon-like.
And the music in the tunnels... it's hilarious!
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Was that Hugo Myatt as Tregaurd's voice, or another voice actor.
Cheers
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I dunno, 4 or 5 months away from my computer and a new Knightmare episode suddenly comes out! Well, sort of.
My take on it:
Music in the Dwarf Tunnels been mentioned, a lot, so I'll skip that. I quite liked the music used in some of the chambers (especially Despair's Chamber), it reminded me of music used in the good old days of video games!
I liked the exchange between Fear and Lissard. My only (rather minor) gripe was that there wasn't much in the way of movement in the characters (anyone remember Mark Knight's frantic expressions when Lissard made yet another mistake? ).
Time for really nasty, too-much-time-on-my-hands nitpicking - I think it should be the Advisor who acts as Spellcaster rather than the Dungeoneer. Personal preference. dodges annoyed looks
Out of interest, who are the voice actors in the video? Hugo Myatt's been mentioned, but how about the others? Fear sounded like Mark Knight, but Lissard didn't sound exactly like like Cliff Barry's version of him from S7 and 8. And Elly sounded like Joanne Heywood to me.
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Yes, Beveryafraid, who were the actors? And one other thing you didn't answer before: were the children's words scripted?
If the tunnels between rooms aren't going to be like that in the real thing, then I like the look of this.
One thing puzzles me: if this is VR and the dungeoneer can thus see where he's going, why was there so much side-stepping? This crab-like means of travel was only employed in the original because it was a more convenient way to guide someone blindfolded than constantly having him turn, so why did Arthur keep doing it? Was this a deliberate attempt to maintain the spirit of the original?
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Some of your queries addressed:
Hugo was Hugo
Lord Fear was Mark Knight
The narrator (Goblin) and the Ogre were myself.
Nick Collett played both Lissard and Despair.
Louise Milford was Ellie
One Line from the dungeoneer (arthur) was scripted.
We used side steps in the Slice n Dice because when we tried it freeform everyone died. Even with sidesteps in the London tests, 3 out of 4 teams perished. It's really very, very much harder than we made it look in the recorded sequence, where obviously we only had one featured team, and for the purpose of the excercise we had to show them succeeding.
None of you clever clogs has so far spotted the non-deliberate mistake!
A small but tasteful momento goes to the first to do so?
bva
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Oh crumbs, I'm hopeless at spotting mistakes unless they hit me like a brick, yet I'd really like a momento!
I'll plump for the Arthur guy saying "I think we should take (whatever letter he says)" when there is clearly no letter there on the first row, on the slice me dice me room.
How's that? Do I win?
And naturally, Hugo was Treguard as well as Hugo.
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