Series 4 - Episode 16
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The team encountered Brother Mace, who asked Giles to take off the eye-shield! He didn't like being spied on by magic shields
Mace tried to give them a Three of Hearts card, saying it was a joker - but the team weren't fooled! Mace then gave them a real Joker card.
Next was another door-monster, Doorkis. Tried the Latin word that Mace gave them (Iocus), but then remembered the calling from the first door. One adviser suggested that they write down the calling now! Scored 2/3 on the true and false riddles, and the door opened.
Through a forest path in Dunkley Wood, and arrived at the entrance to Ariadne's Lair. Just managed to get into the portal before Ariadne came in!
In Ariadne's Lair, got some food and picked up a gold bar. Then Ariadne came in and they had to play the Joker card. This caused Motley to appear, and Motley told Ariadne a few insults to make her go away!
The Dunswater was next, the boatman asked for silver or gold for the fare. Apart from his initial statement about the Dunswater and the fare, the boatman never talks - only grunts. They gave him the gold and got across. Look closely and you'll see the background video sequence 'loop' just before cutting back to the advisers. Obviously they couldn't take an infinite amount of tape of the castle and moat!
In an eye-shield sequence, Giles asked where the door was - in front of him! Down the castle steps, and into a room with a table. On the table was a loaf of bread (they took as food), and an iron key. Giles picked the key up and put it in the knapsack at first, but took it out straight away!
Then called Merlin 3 times, and he appeared (though no longer in the stocks) and disspelled the skull that was floating around. Merlin instructed them to leave the key on the table, so he could 'conjure' the key back later.
In the next room there was the entrance to the Corridor of Blades, but there were two skulls moving back and forth over the entrance. They tried to check the chest and table first, but Pickle said there was nothing worth taking there. Just dodged the skulls (I think they hit him but were let off) and got into the corridor.
In the Corridor of Blades, Giles kept having to run between the left and right wall. They DEFINITELY died twice here, two of the blades touched here! Probably let off since it wasn't worth starting a new quest with only 5 minutes remaining this season! At the end, Giles ran through the door at the side even though the corridor had stopped!
Encountered Mogdred on the bridge, who started to crumble the bridge. They walked quickly forward and into the next room.
Demonstrated how NOT to do the Block and Tackle, paniced a lot and ran around! Still got through though, and into the transporter pad room.
Their quest had to end there though, as the season was coming to an end. Treguard spellcast UNITE to get Giles back to the antechamber. Suddenly Merlin entered, and used his wand to summon Christmas decorations in the antechamber! "You do want to be home in time for Christmas, don't you?"
This is because the original broadcast date (on CITV) was around the 21st December. I'm surprised Challenge didn't edit the Christmas references out (like they did with the CITV scroll in another series) - because it's nowhere near Christmas!
Gundrada was twirling her sword under the credits. She did seem to drop it at the end though, just before it cut off to the Broadsword logo - perhaps that's why they cut it off a bit early
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Their quest had to end there though, as the season was coming to an end. Treguard spellcast UNITE to get Giles back to the antechamber. Suddenly Merlin entered, and used his wand to summon Christmas decorations in the antechamber! "You do want to be home in time for Christmas, don't you?"
This is because the original broadcast date (on CITV) was around the 21st December. I'm surprised Challenge didn't edit the Christmas references out (like they did with the CITV scroll in another series) - because it's nowhere near Christmas!
Gundrada was twirling her sword under the credits. She did seem to drop it at the end though, just before it cut off to the Broadsword logo - perhaps that's why they cut it off a bit early
The team must have felt strange filming the end scene as it was filmed (I believe) during the school summer holidays around about this time of the year. obviously from the time of filming to the time of broadcast they had plenty of time to get home and open their presents, unless of course there was a major delay on the rail or even a longterm rail strike, but anyway.
Yes Gundrada did drop her sword at the end and I don't think that the sword twirling was looped.
Todays ep is one of my favourites one reason is due to memorable scenes. It's hard to tell to me whether or not the Brother Mace/Joker incident was scripted. Notice the way that Michael Cule keeps looking towards the production team, so I think that it wasn't scripted, just a mistake that was left in as a laugh. Maybe it was the production team or a member who done that for a laugh. The Motley and Ariadne scene somewhat remeinded me of the Folly and Cedric insults scene. Obviously there was time between filming that and the next scene. I liked the directing in the CoB where and the way the the advisors directed Giles from wall to wall even if Giles did appear to be touched a couple of times by blades. I think that Pickle made it easier for them than other teams to start with as he told Giles to duck and not so much to move from side to side. The other scene I found amusing was the was they advisors panicked, particularly Brett (I think) and directed or stuggled to direct Giles out of the B&T.
So overall had they have won had they have had more time or and not been the final team of that series. I mean yes it's too late now, but I really wanted them to win and they looked so dissappointed especially when the DISMISS spell was cast.
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Had a look back in slow motion. In the corridor of of blades they had a very narrow escape. I'm fairly certain one of the blades just scrapped Giles - but it's one of those things that the production crew couldn't have easily spotted.
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Let me just start by saying this ep had the best ending of any series. No contest. Oh. Sorry. Wait a second...Lie Mode cancel...ahem. Loved this ep. Started with a lovely scene of Mace butchering another language and blundering things up in true comedy style. (glad to notice this thread hasn't been taken over with arguments about how Mace mispronounced 'Iocus') A little further on Motley appeared and, in a million to one scene, he was actualy mildly entertaining. Crossed the dunswater. CoB. Went through this scene frame by frame. I'd class THAT blade as a miss. If it did hit it wouldn't have been enough to do more than tear his shirt a bit. Mogdred and the badly built bridge. Block and Tackle with plenty of panic and mayhem. Finished in the transporter room, and the less said about the chrimbo ending, the better. Credits sequence showed Gundrada demonstrating what she does to people who try to steal her knickers. Watch her blinking and you'll see it wasn't looped, and yes, she did drop it. Note to self: Punish Challenge! announcers severely.
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What did the Challenge announcer say this time? I tend to watch/record the 7:30am repeat as there is no announcer talking rubbish over the credits.
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That was a brilliant episode I thought After the block and tackle is the most I've heard Treguard laugh before, and the advisors, especially the big one, were clearly enjoying themselves. Sorry to blaspheme, but I haven't enjoyed Series 4 in general as much as the earlier ones, but this could be my personal favourite episode I've seen so far out of all the series.
I found the ending rather dissappointing Usually at the end of the series they go through some of the rooms and show them dramatically callapsing. This end of series was less dramatic imo.
Keep in mind that there were only 122 days left until Christmas yesterday, so the ending wasn't TOO far out. It was a tad out of place and random perhaps, but I'm the type of person who looks forward to Christmas on December the 26th so I don't mind.
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They've started getting and displaying Christmas stuff and cards in the shops and on the shopping channels and it's not even Autumn yet. At work they are already planning our Christmas meal. Anyway that's enough about Christmas for another couple of months or so. Paleasssssse.
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I'm particularly amused by the fact that when Merlin dismisses the team, Brett looks at his hands as if he really was disappearing! It's real!! It's all real!!
Or he was looking down at himself to see if anything really would happen.
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so how close were this team to winning Knightmare. You must say they were in with a fairly good chance after having got past the Block and Tackle (however they managed to do that) and the corridor of blades.
I reckon there was the transporter pads, the final door monster, and one more final room to go.
They had a tiny spell so they would have needed to use that at some point as well.
And that was basically it.
I wonder if the Knightmare production team could have let them carry on filming, and then edit things out.
Truth is we will never know now what could have happened. A bit of a shame really.
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Right since I have this recorded from challenge I will give my opinion on the corridor of blades incident.
Now first of all you must remember since 1990 (was it really 15 years ago now) that technology has moved on quite a lot.
For instance one can now make use of a "slow motion" feature on your video recorder.
Now the team had 16 blades in the CofB, and the first two Pickle did the guiding.
Blade 4, and Blade 8 seem to be the ones being contested.
Blade 4: The blade came from the left hand side, just as blade 2 is, the team hadn't move left or right since blade 2, only up or down, so why should they die, when the teams guiding was no worst than Pickles.
Blade 8: I honestly think the fast forward buttons and rewind buttons on my video screen are now worn out. I reckon the benefit of the doubt was given to the team here, but I DON'T THINK THEY WERE LET OFF.
A few things to say on this:
Giles was a fair portion of the way into the room. (Compared to the position we saw him on the TV screen.)
The blade gets bigger as it comes nearer the camera.
At the point where it passes Giles it is too close to call.
The blade gets bigger AFTER it passes Giles, as it goes nearer the screen. This is where it does appear to hit him. However the blade is past him at this point.
And no I don't buy the theory they were let off, just because there were 5 minutes of the season left. They introduced a new team in series 8 with about 8 minutes left. If they had have died with 5 minutes left, I'm sure between the 8 teams they could fill enough space by editing back in some conversations. (An average of 1 minute 36 seconds a team, think of how many rooms a team has, I guess you are talking about less than 10 seconds a room.)
I'm sure someone (Tim Child) oncve said on this board, they there was someone who took a live decision on things such as the CofB, and that is good enough for me, at the end of the day someone who is human has to make a decision, and even looking on slow motion on my video still doesn't make me sure.
But given the technology at the time used, it's almost an impossible decision to make.
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I'm sure someone (Tim Child) oncve said on this board, they there was someone who took a live decision on things such as the CofB, and that is good enough for me, at the end of the day someone who is human has to make a decision, and even looking on slow motion on my video still doesn't make me sure.
Yes, Tim Child did mention this and it was in relation to this death - the team were given the benefit of doubt.
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It's a real travesty with this team; not only were they probably the most enthusiastic of the series, but also they successfully completed nearly every hard puzzle in the space of 5 minutes (think the skull entrance to the corridor of blades, then the corridor itself, then Mogdred and the wall, then the block and tackle AND THEN the transporter room,which they ran out of time on). This team at least deserved some commendation rather than the D-I-S-M-I-S-S crap they got.
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Well, technically the Episode section is for specific episode discussion. This thread is about a team as opposed to a particular episode, so there's no problem with it being here.
If anyone has any problems, please Instant Message either Illusion, Kieran or myself. Otherwise, please carry on as before.
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Do we have any idea how the team felt. Did they ever say. Is it possible to fimd out. I guess the only person who really knows how many rooms were left is TC. But surely they must have been warned before their adventure began they may not make it, but to be so close they deserve something- Barry in seris 7 did after al, unles that is because they learnt from their mistake in this seris.
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Well if you watch the program the team were very chessed off about it.
This also happened in series 3, and series 5 for sure but that time they were only in level 2.
And if you look at series 4 guide and look at the rooms in level 3, you will see that there could have only been 3 or 4 rooms left at the most.
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It's one of those problems which you will rip your hair out until you get a response from Tim Child himself (read: never).
If you want to let your mind at rest, just presume they got knocked out on the transporter pad and ran into the big FrightKnight.
On a side note, I wonder what would have happened if they did? Would the dungeoneer have died? And if so, what would the animation have been?
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Hi, I don't have challenge but recorded series 3-8 of Knightmare when they originally aired and this episode was one of my favourites. The way the last team are sort of allowed to blunder through the last chambers because it doesn't really matter either way is fabulous!
And as for the end credits, again fantastic, particularly the way Gundrada's sword becomes the Broadsword productions sword when it flies out of her hands!
10/10
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Already done a long recap for this, so here's just a few notes.
I've decided that the joker incident was a genuine mistake. It's unlikely that Mace would deliberately try and give them the wrong card, as he's a goodie, and the team would easily notice it anyway. Also, as has been said multiple times, he glances at the production crew off screen after he finds it. Notice that the card he first picks is on the bottom of the pack, while the Joker is on the top...might it have been a prank from the crew, telling him that the joker's on the bottom? What we need is a Michael Cule interview to find out!
This team were one of the most unfortunate in Knightmare's history. They'd braved blades, block and tackles, crumbling bridges, and seemed like they were easily going to tackle the transporter pad room (which for some reason has a bunch of white lines at the top of the closeup of Giles' legs), but it was too late. If they'd have been Team 7 they'd have easily done it in time...what's particularly painful is that they were on the Quest for the Cup, which no one ever won!
I imagine that after the Transporter Pad room they'd have got a spell from somewhere, then Mogdred would have appeared, they'd use the spell on him, destroying him (giving him a fitting ending), then Dooreen, then the Cup. That's based on Dickon's quest, anyway - I personally would have had Dooreen first, then Mogdred, as defeating a baddy followed by a Door Monster seems a bit of an anticlimax.
That's the end of Series 4, then. Tomorrow sees the start of Series 5...not sure if I'm going to bother commenting on them this time, as I've already done most of the episodes, though I definitely will for episode 8 as I missed it the first time. Unless I miss it again.
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