When Did Knightmare "Jump The Shark" For You?
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Thanks for the Wikipedia link. Though I can't help pointing out that I 'got there first' - Here is what I had to say about Knightmare and jumping the shark, many moons ago. More thoughts follow.
Discussions of jumping the shark are interesting, because they are so subjective. Indeed, there are many fans of Happy Days who feel that the show had jumped the shark even before the shark-jumping scene. Conversely, a fan who 'got into' Happy Days only shortly before the shark-jumping episode is unlikely to see it as a downturn moment. Knightmare is leading to the same diversity of opinions because we all got into at different stages.
Personally, I enjoyed Knightmare a lot less from Series 7 onwards. That was partly to do with personal developments that altered my perspective somewhat; though both back then and in retrospect, changes to Knightmare made it feel discontinuous to me:
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I found Majida unappealing and irritating. Lissard too;
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Hordriss and Treguard, the longest-running characters, seemed to have lost all trace of the sardonic neutrality that made their characters compelling. And the other longest-running character, Motley, was absent without explanation (until Series 8 );
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The dungeoneer sight magic (e.g. VISION and LOOK spells) seemed gimmicky and superfluous. The price of technological capabilities being demonstrated in this way was that great harm was done to one of Knightmare's core concepts: 'Now your advisors will be your eyes';
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The first death of Series 7, where Treguard eschews a familiar 'ooh nasty' commiseration/valediction in favour of bickering with Majida, is unsettling viewing for me.
I never stopped being a Knightmare fan - I wouldn't be here otherwise - but for me, if Knightmare took a downturn akin to jumping the shark, it was in Series 7. Obviously, this is just my opinion.
It's perhaps ironic that, like Happy Days, Knightmare had its own bizarre shark moment. (Cue a doctored image from Billy... if we're lucky )
Edit: The image came and went.
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It didn't. I only watched from half-way through series six onwards on CITV (I was fourteen months old in September 1987) and it never struck me as any worse on the whole. Now that I've seen them all I'd say the worst series was the fourth, largely because Treguard's lines were, bizarrely, identical for each quest, but that the next was better than any that had gone before, the sixth better still.
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...and it's because of that innovation that my opinions on where KM 'Jumped the shark' tend to be a lot different to many others.
To me, the shark was leaped at the transition between seasons 6 and 7 and it was because of the video sequences and location photos being changed for CGI. hears swords leaving scabbards Now now people! Let me explain why:-
IMHO the change to CGI also signalled the change to technical wizardry over a believable realm.
I actually LIKE the Eye-Shield and 'real-world' locations. Yes, it took up game time and introduced a certain linearity to the rooms but the grittynes and slightly layered look felt like a true evolution of David Rowes painted rooms. They may not have been beautiful and perfectly integrated but on a phsycological level that scruffiness aroused curiousity and made you want get into the story and location of your own freewill and THAT'S where the true immersion can happen.
Compare this to the uber-smooth and plasticky look of the CGI rooms to be found in series 7 & 8 and suddenly everything feels fake and like a themepark. It feels like the program is trying to grab you and pull you in under THEIR wishes and not yours. Because of this, I found it harder to suspend my real-world disbelief and couldn't connect with what was going on like before.
The characters changed in feel in a similar manner. They went from 'join us, if you dare' to something resembling 'you're already here'. The first had me wishing I could actually go on the quest (like many of us probably had!) and travel these fantastical places while the second had me thinking "No I'm not! I'm in the living room! "
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Eye Shield Is A Definite Fall-Point For Me.
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Series 4 & 5 for me were not so good, series 4 particularly as there was little difference between the quests, and the irritating-as-hell weeping doors.
However, Series 4 did have Fatilla (who never failed to amuse me) and of course was the first appearance of the legendary corridor of blades.
I'd say that Series 7 & 8 saw the show as compelling as it was in the early days. So rather than jumping the shark, I'd say it dipped under it for a while!
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Before I add my opinion, I'd like to quote from Wikipedia. There are many definitions of jumping the shark, but the most common is
"They are generally viewed as a desperate and futile attempt to keep a series fresh in the face of a decline in ratings"
To be honest, I don't think this really applies to Knightmare, as the ratings did not seriously decline over the 8 years that it was shown on CITV. I'll agree that the show faltered slightly with regards to the eyeshield, CGI etc, but seriously ask urselves
would the show have survived any longer if these changes hadn't been made? did it really alter the show that much? I don;t think they did. I believe series 3 was a high for the show in terms of action and settings, but it was repetitive, something that the later series' strove to avoid. so a mixed bag all round.
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I've found the current series on Challenge to be better than the previous series. I still think that the Eye Shield was a bad idea but at least it meant that the dungeon could expand a whole lot further.
I love the idea of the Dreadnaught though - out there in the dungeon trying to find them. Gives a sense of urgency and a spice of danger.
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Knightmare, for me, didn't seem to get any worse, or tiring although I felt a bit strange getting used to the sontrast betwen series 5 to 6 (with the music, all them extra characters, dwarf tunnels, etc) but I have to agree with the "too much eyeshield" view.
A little bit here and there was (k)nice, but it seems rooms were cut short and it was straight to that wobbly, slow paced camera scroll between every room.
I now find the 1st couple of series a bit boring now. They have their good points, but I just love the outside locations and woods rather than similar airbrushed rooms one after other. It adds an adventure feel and you're going places.
However, the 1st couple series are classic and I love the retro special effects and the dark and dingy feel.
I didn't like the way all of the outdoor scenes were bright pink (series 5-6)!!!!
There was no need- it made them TOO bright. Pink is associated with feminity and light. What it needed was a bit of clever location lighting to give it a boost- not a "colour balance" on 50% red and 20% blue etc.
All in all, the show was great throughout and it was a big part of my childhood!
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Liked most of Knightmare but not sure about the last 2 series really. Not as scary and exciting as it used to be at that point. But thats just my opinion
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Last two series not as scary?!?!? Are you kidding?!?
Perhaps it's because I was only 9/10 when I first watched them, but there was a definite spookiness about some moments in those series. I mean, who wouldn't be scared by someone getting sliced in the corridor of blades and blood pouring onto the screen?! Personally, I think the later series stand up better, and not just because the haircuts are slightly more modern. Series 3 was a good series, but many of the quests lacked "identity", later quests were more individualised.
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I also think that Knightmare never went awful but I think that the visor spells and potions etc. in Series 7 were a bit annoying. It was the same proccess every time.
First Majida would say 'but they can't see, it's too difficult!'
Secondly the team tell the dungeoneer to take the potion or cast the spell or whatever
And then it shows a visor-view on the screen which sometimes even showed the dungeoneer in it! That can't be what they see if they are in it!
Also, they never even seemed to help because the advisors kept guiding the dungeoneer as usual anyway.
Anyway, isn't it best that the dungeoneer doesn't see?
I think they were just doing this to show off the new helmet!
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Hmm, it never really jumped the shark for me, but I have to say I did find it Majida extremely annoying, which was one of a few things that annoyed me about the later series, just my opinion.....
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I don't think it deteriorated (not that I've watched much of the later episodes on YouTube so far) - it just changed.
In some ways it became more difficult in the later series - more information to retain and sift - though for some reason they don't register in the mind as "impossible" the same way Series 3 does.
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Discussions of jumping the shark are interesting, because they are so subjective. Indeed, there are many fans of Happy Days who feel that the show had jumped the shark even before the shark-jumping scene. Conversely, a fan who 'got into' Happy Days only shortly before the shark-jumping episode is unlikely to see it as a downturn moment. Knightmare is leading to the same diversity of opinions because we all got into at different stages.
Agreed. We all naturally gravitate to the first two or three series we saw - or at least, saw and fully understood. I remember watching series 1-2 as a boy, but didn't really know how it worked. It was when series 3 began that I fully understood what it was all about.
If you read my "All Change Please" article in the last three issues of TES, you'll know my feelings on the subject in detail. For me, the high point is series 2-3. Series 2 was basically what series 1 should have been like in the first place, and with series 3 they are really finding their feet.
I still like series 4, because while it isn't any easier, the standard of gameplay is much improved - they still have to solve riddles (albeit mostly true or false ones that they have a 50-50 chance of getting right anyway), but everyone makes it to level 2 at least. The only problem with series 4, and I registered it at the time, was the Eye Shield slowing everything down. If it hadn't been for those cumbersome sequences, Giles would have been able to complete his quest. Also, as a musician, I have to say the series 4-5 theme tune is the best!
Even though the riddles were significantly less in series 5, this was countered by the introduction of Lord Fear, who really was a great baddie, and the causeways, which were a good puzzle.
The point where the rot began to set in for me was series 6 - they tinkered too much with the aesthetics of the show, like the life force and title sequences. The scrolls were also starting to be a dead giveaway, along with the spyglass sequences. Too much information was being handed out for free.
Series 7 was where things really went downhill with the gameplay - because of the new helmet, and the sight magic! What were they thinking?! The whole point of the show was that they couldn't see where they were going, and needed advisors to guide them through the dungeon! Plus, Majida's prompting, "he can't even see what he's doing!" - THAT'S THE POINT! The trial by spikes and play your cards right puzzles were good, but they had really tampered with too much of the show's fundamentals.
Series 8 was the last nail in the coffin. To its credit, Snapper-Jack did at least restore the riddling element to the show, but it wasn't to earn any information, that was still being given freely by the scrolls and spyglasses. One thing I didn't mind was the shortcut, at least not in itself - after all, it is the Corridor of Blades, and if you can survive that, you deserve to go all the way, and arguably Duncan in series 5 happened on this shortcut first. But trying to cram in a winning quest into half an episode at the end was silly - if they'd not had a shortcut, and just had a standard three-level quest for Dunstan, that would have been better.
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