Series 1 - Episode 8
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Not sure what the opposite spell would have been used for. Looked like a large pit behind the wall so maybe after the wall is blasted down with the horn the opposite spell could be used to turn the pit into a path or bridge?
Good episode for Series 1. Shame Mogdred did not get to be seen.
Outtakes and unedited quests would be quality. Maybe they could re-edit the series for DVD so that rather than individual episodes they do it so you have them as individual quests (so the lonegr quests are just straight through rather then tempral distorted - with outtakes could ahve some uber long quests!)
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"Shame Mogdred did not get to be seen."
But i think he DID when they originally filmed the episode. If you look at the episodes Team 6 were in and then the early episodes of the series, you'll see it was speeded up. So therefore, Tim Child and co. depended on this team to get to Level 3. It would be boring if they died or the season ended when they were in level 2.
I think there was an extra room between when they left Merlin's chamber and entered the wellway to Level 3. Also, spells are supposed to be used on the level on which they were recieved. SHIELD seemed like a good defence against Mogdred and in the final edit we never saw the spell getting used. 1 final thing to prove my theory- Mogdred's name is in the credits. Either some idiot didn't watch the series and just typed it on purpose, or, there's something else to it. Case Closed.
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It seems to be generally accepted that there were scenes filmed for the last quest of season 1 that were missing from the broadcasts, and I'm sure there were.
However, while it was possible he was there, personally I don't think Mogdred was in the missing scenes, as that would surely have been far too big a moment to cut out. Yes, he was mentioned in the credits, but that doesn't necessarily mean he was there; characters getting credited in episodes they didn't appear in were a-dime-a-dozen in Knightmare. (It seems the convention might have been a gesture of acknowledgment to the actors when they had to go to all the trouble of learning their lines for a scene that ended up not happening because the dungeoneer got killed off one room earlier. John Woodnutt in particular got quite annoyed about that.)
I suspect Mogdred was going to appear in the last couple of chambers of the dungeon for an 'ultimate challenge/final confrontation' thingie.
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I don't think they would have put someone through to Level 3 if they had dies at some point in level 2. I remember (although it has been a while since last saw the episode) that they had the password to get down the wellway but I never could remember them getting the password so not sure if that room was edited out, yet they kept the 6 minute Folley vs. Cedric insult battle (which is very tasty I have to admit) in. Surely if they were struggling for time they would have done the standard 3 riddles with Cedric?
I think Series 1 was a big learning curve for Knightmare as you could see some of the first few quests were harsh, Team 1 had really difficult items to choose from, later series have 1 obvious worng item usually and with a bit of logic can determine which items to take even if no advice had been given. Level 2, for example, was normally fairly self explainitary which items to take. Some of the questions\riddles in Series 1 were very tough as well. Anyone elses thoughts on this series?
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Temporal Distortion is great for TV but for DVD it would be knice to see uninterrupted quests just straight through, saves having to have all the reminders of what you've just seen 2 minutes ago from a DVD perspective!
Temporal disruption was an astute and effective device, and a fairly unique one: Who Wants To Be A Millionaire? is the only other show I can think of that uses anything similar. However, the ringing-in of a week's 'time out' has become a redundant technique where Knightmare is concerned. Most of those owning KM recordings probably have one or more entire series, and I can't imagine them restricting themselves to one episode per week (even one episode per sitting is a struggle!). What's more, most 'rewatchers' now know broadly, if not exactly, what's going to happen next. So although the temporal disruptions carry as much nostalgia value as any other aspect of Knightmare, I too think that it would be interesting to watch quests undisrupted.
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This is what should have happened in level three:
Richard takes horn from the clue room, quest progresses to the Wall of Jericho as per what actually happened, Richard blows horn to get rid of wall (exactly the same as Chris in the next series), Merlin's room is revealed beyond, Mogdred appears and gloats/threatens/starts trying to kill dungeoneer, advisor (Edward) casts OPPOSITE, Mogdred turns into Merlin, Merlin tells team they've won, Treguard gives team silver spurs and congrats and then says goodbye to watchers, episode ends.
That's what I think, anyway.
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A most interesting discussion. Series 1, while basic compared to the later series, was nonetheless a great introduction to the show. I love how the episode and the series ended in mystery - just what would the team have encountered had they been able to bring down the Walls of Jericho? Indeed, what would have happened had the team taken the horn - would their quest still have ended prematurely?
I reckon the team were near the end anyway - perhaps a visit to the Medusa room where the SHIELD spell would have saved them and then a final encounter with Mogdred - whether they would have defeated him or not is impossible to say - casting the spell OPPOSITE would probably take too long and as evidenced in Series 4 Episode 1 Mogdred wastes no time in killing dungeoneers.
I too am of the opinion that Mogdred was definitely supposed to make an appearance in Series 1 (why should Merlin mention him if he was never intended to appear?) - but we shall never know if John Woodnutt actually filmed an encounter with a dungeoneer in his guise of Mogdred. His name appears in the end credits but this could well have been an oversight. A similar mistake happened in Series 4 - John Woodnutt is only credited as Merlin in the episode where Mogdred kills his first dungeoneer face to face!
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The trouble with the cast lists in Series 1 and 2 is that each was obviously written ages before the series was completed, and not revised as necessary.
The Series 1 cast, if it had been revised after filming was completed, could have added Gibbet to Alec Westwood, Giant to Edmund Dehn, removed Mogdred from John Woodnutt, and changed "Knight" to "Gumboil". (Although there is an issue here about filming not being completed before the first episode went out, I believe.)
Similarly, with Series 2, Igneous needed to be added to Edmund Dehn, "Monk" could have been changed to "Cedric", and they could even have added Oracle of Confusion to Audrey Jenkinson. Perhaps this is why they hedged their bets in Series 4, just writing a list of "The Players", which was never very helpful for working out who played the door monsters!
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Perhaps this is why they hedged their bets in Series 4, just writing a list of "The Players", which was never very helpful for working out who played the door monsters!
Much to the relief of the actors concerned, no doubt. The door monsters really were a low point in Knightmare for me.
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my favourite epsiode was episode 8 it was ashort but exciting intro to level 3 i agree with the opposite it could have been used but a sthe dungeion was ending it was an excuse to end gameplay. I thinkn that they saw the cuo and thought holy grail but nilrem could have ended upo in mogdres lAIR maybe?? you can never know with level 3 ha ha ha an excellent epiosde tho
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The actors credits situaiton is a very interesting one. As explained above the credits for S1/2 rarely reflect what actually happened in the said episode.
The fact that Mogdred didn't manage to appear in S1 is another strange one. Clearly the character had been drawn up and created (hence Merlin's mentioning of him), and indeed made it into the credits. Time must have been against them, perhaps. Mayhaps not enough quests made it to Level 3, or he has a specific room he was due to appear in, yet the dungeoneer never made it?
Either way, the haunting music at the entrance of level 3 give it a nice atmosphere here.
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What was this Level 2 all about? A performance in the Hall of Spears that should have left Richard more swiss-cheesed than Sam Beckett on a bad day; a debate over whether to take the bell that was rendered pointless by the fact that it wasn't used; help from Casper at every opportunity; a scene with Merlin rendered pointless by the fact that the spell he gave out was never used (or seen to be used). Frustrating stuff. All we as watchers can really do is be grateful that the production team arranged for us to get a look at Level 3.
If Level 2 did have a missing scene, I suspect that it would have involved Gumboil rather than Mogdred.
If you look carefully, you can see him step down from the step after collecting the clue objects.
I found this extremely entertaining.
First team to get to Level 3!
Unless Gibbet tried to dispose of Simon down the wellway...
Entered a room full of skulls, and a giant skeleton appeared! Same music used here as for Team 1's death sequence...
I liked this touch. It brought us full circle from the first episode to the last.
Here, from the Remixed Knightmare thread, is how the episode could have ended:
[Series 1. Richard is at Jericho 6, holding up the dagger.]
Treguard: Why are you carrying a weapon of so little use to one who's blindfold? Where is the horn to bring down the walls of Jericho?
[Richard puts the hilt of the dagger to his mouth and makes tooting noises.]
Treguard: That will not work, team.
Richard: Wait! I know!
[Richard breaks one of the horns off the Helmet of Justice and blows into it. The solo from the song Baker Street is heard. The bricks disappear. Behind the wall is standing...]
Bob Holness: Well done, Richard. You've busted the blocks. And you play that almost as well as I do. I must go now, but to find me again, just look for my first name spelt backwards over a portal.
Treguard: [Muttering] Just one more year and then I'll be happy.
The end credits laughter for this episode would have been a great final opportunity to introduce Mogdred and whet viewers' appetites for the hoped-for next series.
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It was important the team didn't die, there wasn't enough time to start a new quest, not needing an object on level 2 means they couldn't pick up the wrong one. It's possible the spell 'Shield' used and then edited out of the episode because they had too much footage.
And stopping those spikes mid way was a really poor idea.
why bother trying to avoid them if they just pause once you step in front of them? Sure remove them once the team passes like other quests.
Caper locked door wasn't much of a challenge like other quests.
The M letter puzzle was a nice variation.
And while we had a first look at level 3 it didn't come across as challenging at all.. easier than level one!!! the team were told they were almost done.
I wonder if the episode to set up to allow enough time for a win, hence an easy ride but also designed to kill the team off at the end if they ran out of time.. the team were quite slow with the M and in the clue rooms.
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Useless level 2 objects seem to be a recurring theme in S1.
The Shield spell does suggest medusa was primed and ready to go but wasn't used/reached. Does anyone know when S2 was commissioned? Did the producers know at this point they could hold some great stuff back?
Given the obvious manipulation of this quest I'm not sure how much kudos can go to the final team for being series 'champions'!
And though most of the characters in KM still look great today, those cavernwights have dated badly - those mops on their heads! On that note, it seemed so easy to zoom past them I don't think it would have occurred to me to fanny about with the bottle of scent, despite Treguard's subtle clue.
Ah, S2 next, which contains so many wonderful, vivid childhood memories that I'll probably break down and cry at regular intervals
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