Series 1 - Episode 8
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Hmm, indeed. We know that rooms and scenes were filmed 'posthumously' and inserted into quests. It most likely works the other way around, too - scenes and rooms that have been cut out. That'd be a fascinating reel to watch.
Assuming said reels haven't been destroyed by now, in light of the fact it'd have no use anywhere at all and that the idea of "Extras" on DVDs and stuff was still 15 years off.
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A lot of censors' cuts from long-lost Doctor Who stories exist, made way back in the 60s. Bearing that in mind, perhaps it's not so unreasonable to consider that Km cuts exist as well. (And if they find the missing episode of The Tenth Planet, it's a dead cert! )
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It is hard to tell whether KM producers kept the outtakes, though it is certainly fair from impossible.
Outtakes from Doctor Who still exist, hours worth from 80s stories (again when DVD extras had not even been thought of) and even minor studio work from late 60s stories.
However, in some cases they simply choose not to keep outtakes out of respect to the actors involved, Peter Rogers of the Carry On legacy upholds this, minus outtakes from Columbus (I hope).
Only way we'll know is by asking the man himself.
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Episode 8 was def. the best ep. of series 1 but does give you a suspicion if editing went on
That SHIELD spell... my theory is that the team actually encountered MOGDRED (where i got my name) in LEVEL 2 bcoz Merlin said that Mogdred lies ahead i.e Level 2 and below. However was cut-out maybe bcoz Mogdred might've gloated for soooooooooooooooooooo looooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggg!!!
Also his name is in the credits. He might've tried to kill the team but would have used the spell against him... aah... i can just imagine it now... Mogdred would have said something like
"Richard ignore your quest- Mogdred's path lies below. (NILREM) Spurn it and you will face creatures beyond fear Mwhahahahahahahhahahahaah"
Er... how does that sound to evry1 here?
One last thing; Harvey Towers, the team could not use the OPPOSITE spell against the door bcoz they had not gained it yet. It wernt till they met the Gargoyle they earned it. Maybe if the team took the horn there might've been poison on the other side of the wall in Jericho 6 then maybe cast the spell to make it harmless and would use it to heal life force that's what i think anyway...
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Not sure what the opposite spell would have been used for. Looked like a large pit behind the wall so maybe after the wall is blasted down with the horn the opposite spell could be used to turn the pit into a path or bridge?
Good episode for Series 1. Shame Mogdred did not get to be seen.
Outtakes and unedited quests would be quality. Maybe they could re-edit the series for DVD so that rather than individual episodes they do it so you have them as individual quests (so the lonegr quests are just straight through rather then tempral distorted - with outtakes could ahve some uber long quests!)
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"Shame Mogdred did not get to be seen."
But i think he DID when they originally filmed the episode. If you look at the episodes Team 6 were in and then the early episodes of the series, you'll see it was speeded up. So therefore, Tim Child and co. depended on this team to get to Level 3. It would be boring if they died or the season ended when they were in level 2.
I think there was an extra room between when they left Merlin's chamber and entered the wellway to Level 3. Also, spells are supposed to be used on the level on which they were recieved. SHIELD seemed like a good defence against Mogdred and in the final edit we never saw the spell getting used. 1 final thing to prove my theory- Mogdred's name is in the credits. Either some idiot didn't watch the series and just typed it on purpose, or, there's something else to it. Case Closed.
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It seems to be generally accepted that there were scenes filmed for the last quest of season 1 that were missing from the broadcasts, and I'm sure there were.
However, while it was possible he was there, personally I don't think Mogdred was in the missing scenes, as that would surely have been far too big a moment to cut out. Yes, he was mentioned in the credits, but that doesn't necessarily mean he was there; characters getting credited in episodes they didn't appear in were a-dime-a-dozen in Knightmare. (It seems the convention might have been a gesture of acknowledgment to the actors when they had to go to all the trouble of learning their lines for a scene that ended up not happening because the dungeoneer got killed off one room earlier. John Woodnutt in particular got quite annoyed about that.)
I suspect Mogdred was going to appear in the last couple of chambers of the dungeon for an 'ultimate challenge/final confrontation' thingie.
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I don't think they would have put someone through to Level 3 if they had dies at some point in level 2. I remember (although it has been a while since last saw the episode) that they had the password to get down the wellway but I never could remember them getting the password so not sure if that room was edited out, yet they kept the 6 minute Folley vs. Cedric insult battle (which is very tasty I have to admit) in. Surely if they were struggling for time they would have done the standard 3 riddles with Cedric?
I think Series 1 was a big learning curve for Knightmare as you could see some of the first few quests were harsh, Team 1 had really difficult items to choose from, later series have 1 obvious worng item usually and with a bit of logic can determine which items to take even if no advice had been given. Level 2, for example, was normally fairly self explainitary which items to take. Some of the questions\riddles in Series 1 were very tough as well. Anyone elses thoughts on this series?
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Temporal Distortion is great for TV but for DVD it would be knice to see uninterrupted quests just straight through, saves having to have all the reminders of what you've just seen 2 minutes ago from a DVD perspective!
Temporal disruption was an astute and effective device, and a fairly unique one: Who Wants To Be A Millionaire? is the only other show I can think of that uses anything similar. However, the ringing-in of a week's 'time out' has become a redundant technique where Knightmare is concerned. Most of those owning KM recordings probably have one or more entire series, and I can't imagine them restricting themselves to one episode per week (even one episode per sitting is a struggle!). What's more, most 'rewatchers' now know broadly, if not exactly, what's going to happen next. So although the temporal disruptions carry as much nostalgia value as any other aspect of Knightmare, I too think that it would be interesting to watch quests undisrupted.
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This is what should have happened in level three:
Richard takes horn from the clue room, quest progresses to the Wall of Jericho as per what actually happened, Richard blows horn to get rid of wall (exactly the same as Chris in the next series), Merlin's room is revealed beyond, Mogdred appears and gloats/threatens/starts trying to kill dungeoneer, advisor (Edward) casts OPPOSITE, Mogdred turns into Merlin, Merlin tells team they've won, Treguard gives team silver spurs and congrats and then says goodbye to watchers, episode ends.
That's what I think, anyway.
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A most interesting discussion. Series 1, while basic compared to the later series, was nonetheless a great introduction to the show. I love how the episode and the series ended in mystery - just what would the team have encountered had they been able to bring down the Walls of Jericho? Indeed, what would have happened had the team taken the horn - would their quest still have ended prematurely?
I reckon the team were near the end anyway - perhaps a visit to the Medusa room where the SHIELD spell would have saved them and then a final encounter with Mogdred - whether they would have defeated him or not is impossible to say - casting the spell OPPOSITE would probably take too long and as evidenced in Series 4 Episode 1 Mogdred wastes no time in killing dungeoneers.
I too am of the opinion that Mogdred was definitely supposed to make an appearance in Series 1 (why should Merlin mention him if he was never intended to appear?) - but we shall never know if John Woodnutt actually filmed an encounter with a dungeoneer in his guise of Mogdred. His name appears in the end credits but this could well have been an oversight. A similar mistake happened in Series 4 - John Woodnutt is only credited as Merlin in the episode where Mogdred kills his first dungeoneer face to face!
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The trouble with the cast lists in Series 1 and 2 is that each was obviously written ages before the series was completed, and not revised as necessary.
The Series 1 cast, if it had been revised after filming was completed, could have added Gibbet to Alec Westwood, Giant to Edmund Dehn, removed Mogdred from John Woodnutt, and changed "Knight" to "Gumboil". (Although there is an issue here about filming not being completed before the first episode went out, I believe.)
Similarly, with Series 2, Igneous needed to be added to Edmund Dehn, "Monk" could have been changed to "Cedric", and they could even have added Oracle of Confusion to Audrey Jenkinson. Perhaps this is why they hedged their bets in Series 4, just writing a list of "The Players", which was never very helpful for working out who played the door monsters!
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Perhaps this is why they hedged their bets in Series 4, just writing a list of "The Players", which was never very helpful for working out who played the door monsters!
Much to the relief of the actors concerned, no doubt. The door monsters really were a low point in Knightmare for me.
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my favourite epsiode was episode 8 it was ashort but exciting intro to level 3 i agree with the opposite it could have been used but a sthe dungeion was ending it was an excuse to end gameplay. I thinkn that they saw the cuo and thought holy grail but nilrem could have ended upo in mogdres lAIR maybe?? you can never know with level 3 ha ha ha an excellent epiosde tho
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