knightmare on youtube
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My perspective on the episode uploads on YouTube was always 'enjoy it while it lasts'. I'd never have guessed that their eventual removal would be prompted by an official new Knightmare episode from YouTube itself! Legal or not, their removal is a loss to the fandom (especially since the comments have yielded behind the scenes nuggets not found elsewhere) and will quite possibly lead to an increase in pirate DVD sales.
I still feel that in an ideal world, Knightmare belongs on TV. So I hope that Challenge will try to get the rights to show Series 3-8.
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My perspective on the episode uploads on YouTube was always 'enjoy it while it lasts'. I'd never have guessed that their eventual removal would be prompted by an official new Knightmare episode from YouTube itself! Legal or not, their removal is a loss to the fandom (especially since the comments have yielded behind the scenes nuggets not found elsewhere) and will quite possibly lead to an increase in pirate DVD sales.
I still feel that in an ideal world, Knightmare belongs on TV. So I hope that Challenge will try to get the rights to show Series 3-8.
The problem with YouTube is it's a double-edged sword. There's no point bringing up legalities here, but while the point you raised concerning the possible increased trade in illegal DVDs is a valid one, but the YouTube episodes have (at least in my experience of the site) potentially made the whole situation far worse.
YouTube is supposed to be a secure video publishing/viewing site. In practice its security is full of holes. Pretty much the whole internet knows this - if a video has been on the site chances are at least somebody has physically downloaded it as well. If the video is an entire episode of a TV program, a music video or a movie people are far quicker to download the file because they hope to do so before the video is pulled for copyright reasons.
When you have the entire history of Knightmare available for a long period in a format which any Joe Public with a basic computer and internet access can download locally, in an unencrypted format, free from DRM, under their full control - you have a major problem. There's no way of knowing who has the files, how many copies are out there or what people could be planning to do with them. Whatever the situation might have been with the illegal DVD sales a while back, the damage could spread much further much faster now. We can only hope this doesn't come to pass.
I do agree in principal that it would serve the greater good for those classic episodes to be viewable somewhere someplace. The only real caveat is that it should be somewhere that's much more invested in security and certain precautions are in place.
I wonder if Tim has ever considered the possibility of making episodes available electronically through services such as ITunes? Services like that are reasonably secure, the files are digitally signed (and can only be played on the devices to which they are downloaded, meaning they can't be resold or passed around), and I'm sure people wouldn't mind paying a small fee. This sort of thing has got to be far safer than an admittedly risky DVD venture in any case.
If people can obtain episodes relatively inexpensively, that would surely drive away the pirate market since people would have legal channels to use and be taking far less risk with their purchases.
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Some perspective on the recording and posting of whole Knightmare episodes on YouTube. I imagine some of you on this site may well have done this without necessarily thinking things through.
Firstly its illegal. Completely illegal. It’s also illegal to post Knightmare clips, but as the primary intellectual rights holder, I have always regarded the posting of clips as ‘promotional’ to the format and its ‘made programmes’, and therefore turned a blind eye. I’m also well aware that its done with affection and in homage to the concept. I think my colleagues at ITV feel the same. I know that most of the long term Knightmare cast concur
So what’s different about the result of recording and posting whole programmes?
Well by doing so you rob the entire cast, not just by the revenues they should have received by an act of piracy, but also you damage and devalue the programmes that were copied, making networks like Challenge less willing to shell out for them, and pay the cast, writing and music residuals. Furthermore you make it even less likely that a new broadcast undertaking would consider the heavy investment in format needed to bring about a fresh version of Knightmare. No-one likes to compete with freebies.
So in summary: if you record and post whole programmes, you stiff the cast, you stiff the composer, you stiff me, and if you’re one who counts themselves part of any bring-back-knightmare campaign, you stiff yourself.
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So... does that mean there will be an official DVD box set somewhere on the distant horizon?
I would absolutely LOVE a Ltd Edition Box set with behind-the-scenes stuff as extras, maybe the 25th Anniversary videos, and the GeekWeek episode as an Easter Egg (I've been quite consistent in that despite the peeking on youtube - my main aim is for an official box set)
Heck, I wouldn't buy it just for me, it would be the must-have Xmas 2013 present of choice amongst most of my friends!
I just realised that it would be a great alternative for people who could not make it to the proposed convention
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I believe it won't be straight forward to do a dvd boxset but if there ever is a time for this to come to life, it's now. While there is a huge buzz around Knightmare, there is no better time to do this. Otherwise it will never happen. I for one would buy it, regardless of the cost.
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Stick to topic please.
The topic is "knightmare on YouTube".
By all means, create new threads in relation to books and DVD releases.
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How many children's game shows have actually made it to DVD though?
I am sure you don’t need me to tell you that the DVD market is not what it once was due to the rise of on demand/streaming/download services.
Aside from Challenge TV repeats, I'd say an iTunes release would be the most likely thing to hope for now.
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I understand the points about YouTube, online piracy, and the entire debate that's going on these days regarding material development and if money should be going to the right people etc. But in terms of Knightmare specifically, is there no common ground between having Knightmare available or nothing?
I mean if by watching episodes of Knightmare repeatedly for the last year on YouTube I apologise if that is stiffing you, and everyone, but is that something that can be avoided in this day and age? Would it have made a difference if I didn't click on the videos and watched them? Is not watching Knightmare the best thing to do for the series. Its so confusing as a fan when you don't have access to what your a fan of.
I also understand DVDs are out of the question. In fairness, why would anyone apart from avid fans and collectors buy an DVD box set outside of the Christmas period. Its not a good move, especially when you see a huge work of art which a Knightmare box set would be, going for £15 in a HMV bargain basket, when it cost more to make the damn discs and packaging.
What I am getting at, if Knightmare has been removed due to legal reasons, then that's fine and as it should be. It is fair and just, but then will we see some fair and just for us fans who want to see it, and are actually willing to pay money to do so? We are not given that option is the point I am trying to drive home. I mean here's my money! Take it! Get it on a paid for service site, like iTunes or Netflix so the fans can give back to you guys what we feel you are entitled to.
I know it must be sinkeningly unfair to see your works available for free, but there must be a common ground here for us fans who now don't have access to watch the show that has resulted in the fans we are today. There has to be
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I'm sorry Alan, just making a point from what Tim was saying. Also as he made his comments on this particular thread I thought it was best to reply on this thread. All future points with regards to dvd set's I will start a new thread or comment on a relevant thread regarding dvd's.
I do agree 100 percent with what Tim has said.
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If you look at the shows on Challenge TV...Fun House, TNA wrestling, Bullseye, Who wants to be a millionaire, all these and more appear on YouTube (and have have done for some time) in either clip or full episode form and this has not stopped Challenge TV from buying the rights to show them.
I appreciate that this is no argument against the legal/copyright side of things however, that of course must be respected.
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If you look at the shows on Challenge TV...Fun House, TNA wrestling, Bullseye, Who wants to be a millionaire, all these and more appear on YouTube (and have have done for some time) in either clip or full episode form and this has not stopped Challenge TV from buying the rights to show them.
I appreciate that this is no argument against the legal/copyright side of things however, that of course must be respected.
You usually make good points Insider, but not here I'm afraid.
The shows you quote are gameshows, all of them mass produced in their hundreds and even thousands, with very little residuals to pay, and therefore cheap as chips ro rerun, with their simpler production values. No big decision for outfits like Challenge or other niche channels in the market for moving wallpaper with a soundtrack. Knightmare, as I don't have to tell you was a hybrid - a dramatised adventure game -engaging the talents of a cast of actors who would have done justice to a full blow drama. Expensive to make and very expensive to rerun, especially in comparison to gameshows.
To those of you who have made the point that priracy could be excused as a last resort by genuine fans who would always prefer to pay for the product (if only they could), I do most genuinely sympathise, but that doesn't mean such action is not self-defeating, which is why I pointed it out.
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I mean if by watching episodes of Knightmare repeatedly for the last year on YouTube I apologise if that is stiffing you, and everyone, but is that something that can be avoided in this day and age? Would it have made a difference if I didn't click on the videos and watched them? Is not watching Knightmare the best thing to do for the series. Its so confusing as a fan when you don't have access to what your a fan of.
From what I can ascertain, there's no harm in viewing any material available on YouTube. The damage is done by the process of recording and uploading the episodes. It wouldn't matter whether an illegally uploaded video had 5 views or if it had 50,000 the effect is the same - the material is available for free therefore what does Challenge gain by purchasing the rights to show Knightmare?
When Challenge purchase those rights, a certain percentage goes towards all the wonderful cast and crew who made the series possible. This simply does not happen on YouTube, aside from specially licensed material which YouTube recognizes and pays for through advertisements. While that would appear to be one possible partial solution (ie. an official YouTube channel that is paid for by advertisements), you are still left with the YouTube problem of users who download videos from the site and illegally republish them on their own channels.
I also understand DVDs are out of the question. In fairness, why would anyone apart from avid fans and collectors buy an DVD box set outside of the Christmas period. Its not a good move, especially when you see a huge work of art which a Knightmare box set would be, going for £15 in a HMV bargain basket, when it cost more to make the damn discs and packaging.
As I pointed out earlier, unless Knightmare manages to completely take over television in a massive way there simply isn't the raw audience out there to make DVD box-sets and the like worthwhile and profitable. Digital distribution removes much of the risk-factor (since there are zero manufacturing costs), allow sale of material of any length (for example, single episodes), and deals can be made for material to be made available to the public at pretty low cost and in some cases for free.
This also provides room for experimentation - a single episode, or maybe a couple, could be made available to begin with (episodes which Challenge don't have the rights to broadcast to avoid potential conflict). The minimal material would have incredibly low publishing cost and would provide an opportunity to gauge public response and profitability, before increasing the available library gradually over time to eventually include everything.
I think that's our single best hope of getting classic Knightmare episodes available on-demand legally.
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I've noticed that most Knightmare videos on YouTube have been blocked.
And it says due to a copyright claim by British Sky Broadcasting Ltd.. Does Sky own the rights now?
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I've noticed that most Knightmare videos on YouTube have been blocked.
And it says due to a copyright claim by British Sky Broadcasting Ltd.. Does Sky own the rights now?
BSkyB own Challenge, who currently have the broadcast rights to Series 1 & 2. Interestingly, a different set of uploads were blocked by ITV.
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