Series 2 - Episode 11
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Yeah but Treguard was probably told by the producers to use that line to add drama. When the team used the spell, it freed Gretel which I think was the correct procedure. Otherwise if Treguard was right in saying to the team about using it for themselves, it would have got rid one of the other 2 webs in the room.
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Before casting the spell the team had already picked what they were going to use it for. I'm not sure if they were meant to use it in that room for themselves or save it for later. Feeing the maid seems the most logical thing to do.
Either way the team would have died I think, not only was it a boring death but I really harsh one too. Did they make any major mistakes? They did get 3/3 riddles correct from Cedric and had no extra bonus from him either, and the level 2 clue room was an odd one as well.
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How pleasing to see old posts in this topic wishing for Ariadne to come back if Knightmare were to return.
They didn't get much of a reward for a supposedly perfect score - Cedric merely accompanied them into the next room, and I can't imagine his presence was vital to get past the toadodile in the corridor. Anyway, a score of 2 would probably have been enough to earn his services (assuming a score of 1 would simply allow them to take the food), so shouldn't they get something extra for 3? What happened to "I command you"?
My understanding was that a 1/3 score with Cedric would mean grub and losing status, a 2/3 score would mean grub and essential help for later (e.g. a spell), a 3/3 score would mean grub, essential help for later and non-essential bonus assistance from Cedric (i.e. tagging along for a room or two). For 3/3, Jamie's team only got the non-essential help. Or are we meant to believe that if they'd got less than 3/3, Cedric would have stayed behind and they'd have been killed by the toadodile? What exactly would a lower score have earned them?
The 'Gift Spell' caption was one of Knightmare's most bizarre one-offs. And how odd that within minutes we went from hearing "Beware the talisman" to "Your quest is for the Talisman".
In Ariadne's lair (not 'layer'!), they used the FREE spell to free the maid. Notice how the spellcaster started to cast it again when they thought it hadn't worked.
One of several peculiar aspects of this team's Level 2.
It's highly unusual for a team to perish with two clue objects still in their possession. I think Akash and Jamie were the only ones in the whole of Knightmare, but I would gladly stand corrected.
Could this have been the forced death due to a team member getting homesick?
If so, why not skip the Level 2 clue room? I'm inclined to think that the team were in losing status after the Level 1 bomb room farce, and were allowed to get into Level 2 to avoid script wastage (Treguard went to great lengths to guarantee their success in Level 1), but that's wild speculation.
The MEDAL spell itself is strange. I can't imagine how it would have worked. It's all so peculiar.
The weirdness concluded with the four dismissed team members fading away on the spot rather than walking away. A literal case of no turning back.
Having not heard from Gretel since Episode 6(?), in this episode Audrey Jenkinson has three scenes, almost consecutively. Although the character of Gretel is annoying, it's intentional, and I find the portrayal more amusing than I used to. It's a sad irony that Audrey, who had a hellish personal life in the 1980s and 1990s, came to doubt her own prettiness so much that she resorted to rhinoplasty.
I can't tell you how much I adore the way Treguard says, "Where's the fire, team?" A new addition to my list of favourite moments. And as pointed out by Tom41, the question is answered in the next room.
To echo what Harvey Towers has said, it's both impressive and refreshing to see a dungoneer getting not just one correct answer on his own but all three: no help needed from the advisors, no troll-sized "Think, team" clues from Treguard.
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Literally registered just to post this, as I wanted to put my two pennorth across.
I think the Gift Spell caption came up because the voice effect was so strong, they wanted to make sure everyone knew what the spell word actually was.
As for the death being unfair or not - Jamie seemed to do the head tilting trick rather a lot in Level 1, would the producers penalise a team in game for 'cheating' like that
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Literally registered just to post this, as I wanted to put my two pennorth across.
I think the Gift Spell caption came up because the voice effect was so strong, they wanted to make sure everyone knew what the spell word actually was.
As for the death being unfair or not - Jamie seemed to do the head tilting trick rather a lot in Level 1, would the producers penalise a team in game for 'cheating' like that
Hey! Welcome to the forum!
You made some good points there. Yes I agree with what you said about the gift spell. I guess it was to make sure the team got it as the voice effect wasn't crystal clear.
I never noticed Jamie tilting his head so not sure. But at the same Jamie got a perfect score against Cedric yet didn't get to command him. Was this fair? Plus the fact that the Automatum came in at a bad angle. Again, I didn't think this was fair.
However, it's a good theory! Anyway hope you enjoy the forum!
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I don't think head tilting would help.
You can't see anything except blue
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Automatum may have came in at a bad angle but it wouldn't have been too hard to him to fix the error, by walking slower or turning a different direction, but he almost ran in the and we straight for that piece of the medal spell, I think it was deliberate.
But if they wanted to kill the team off for whatever reason they could have done it in a less complicated way lol
And and I hear the Free spell spelt twice? Was it the dungenner doing it the second time? maybe he thought he had to repeat.
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Automatum may have came in at a bad angle but it wouldn't have been too hard to him to fix the error, by walking slower or turning a different direction, but he almost ran in the and we straight for that piece of the medal spell, I think it was deliberate.
But if they wanted to kill the team off for whatever reason they could have done it in a less complicated way lol
And and I hear the Free spell spelt twice? Was it the dungenner doing it the second time? maybe he thought he had to repeat.
I think it was because there was a delay in between the spell being cast and for it to erase the web Gretel was stuck in.
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I think Jamie's team were very good. They seemed to come into their own in Level 2, especially with regards to riddle answering, and the automaton mix-up seems like something that many 'Level 3' teams from various series would have also fallen victim to.
The lack of reward for 3 correct riddles was very unfair. The legendary Mark Wickson, for example, didn't have to answer any riddles from Cedric at all. Surely this was enough to earn a MEDAL spell?!
In an ideal world, a new series of Knightmare would be aimed at adults and would invite back all of the teams who suffered deaths widely thought of as unfair by the Knightmare community. Jamie, Cliff, Leo, Helen (Series 4)... it's time to right a few wrongs!
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The lack of reward for 3 correct riddles was very unfair. The legendary Mark Wickson, for example, didn't have to answer any riddles from Cedric at all. Surely this was enough to earn a MEDAL spell?!
Yeah whilst Mark got help from Cedric just for being his friend, Jamie had no real extra help. That is a tad bit wrong I think!
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I really think this team got a raw deal. Okay, so they missed the bits of the MEDAL spell, (but they didn't get much chance to get it what with the Automatum following so closely) but they could have escaped from Ariadne's Lair if they'd ignored Gretel. (I would have! I can't stand her!) After all, she didn't give them anything useful for freeing her, since she just told them to use a spell they didn't have.
Anyway, I'm wondering what would have happened if they HAD ignored her. Since she didn't give them any clues or advice for later in the level, I don't see how ignoring her could have done any harm. Well, except for the whole code of chivalry thing... But still, it's bloody Gretel! Sod the code, I want to see Ariadne eat her!
Oh! That's charming that is!
sulks
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Team 9 were going really well, 3/3 against Cedric and looking very competent.
However, they had to collect 3 pieces of a "MEDAL" spell in the 4-exit chamber but were intercepted by the mechanical warrior, so had to flee without all of the pieces. Controversy: Were they given anything like enough time to collect all 3 pieces? It didn't appear so. They delayed for a moment, but no more than that....
There's something fishy about that Automatum scene where they don't have enough time to collect the medal pieces. Watch carefully when it switches back and forth between the room and the advisors - there's a slight change in lighting and camera position when the Automatum enters, as if the scene has been refilmed, and then it changes back again when Treguard says "Too late" and tells them to exit now. Perhaps something happened that we didn't get to see, so it wasn't as ridiculously harsh as it looked?
Exactly, there has surely been some tampering with this scene. The 1st and 3rd shots of the room are really bright, but the 2nd shot is very dull. It looks like a different take.
There is a lapse of 3 seconds (when they show you the advisors) between the 2nd and the 3rd shots, but in that time the mechanical warrior has advanced 4 or 5 paces and turned 45 degrees left. It was not moving that fast.
Can't imagine why they would re-film the scene, unless it was to change the outcome for some reason.
A few rooms later they needed the "MEDAL" spell to escape from Ariadne and it was game over. It seemed extremely harsh.
I assume if they had abandoned Gretel and saved the "FREE" spell for themselves, it would have counted against them as they were in "losing-status" without the "MEDAL" spell.
Team 10 started ok, altho Julian burnt his feet in the scarab flame-room for minor life-force damage.
Convincing 3/3 against Olgarth (who has been a rare sighting this series) as time ran out.
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I've been thinking about this one recently, oddly enough.
I assume if they had abandoned Gretel and saved the "FREE" spell for themselves, it would have counted against them as they were in "losing-status" without the "MEDAL" spell.
I hadn't even considered the fact that the team didn't have the MEDAL spell, weirdly - although it's been a while since I watched Series 2 so maybe it slipped my mind!
My assumption was that the team died because they weren't quick enough - could've positioned themselves next to the web with Gretel in, cast FREE to get rid of it, and then followed her through to the next room before the web re-appeared. However, neither Gretel nor Treguard gave any hint that this was the action to take (Knightmare characters did have a tendency to guide/escort dungeoneers who had done them a favour, but Gretel didn't offer to do so); the team dawdled and so the web re-appeared, leading to their death.
Is my assumption. The team didn't have the MEDAL spell, although I fail to see how that would have stopped Ariadne unless it squashed her under a huge medal or something. I think they would have had to use it later in the game, and although not having it did put them into losing status, I'm not entirely sure it would have helped with Ariadne very much.
Of course, if the production team wanted to kill the team off (for whatever reason) they may as well have had Ariadne do it. Were the team likely to be able to go further (ie. if they did have the MEDAL spell), then the web that they dispelled with FREE may have permanently been removed, giving them a clear path to the exit!
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This particular quest ending was certainly a strange one, because there were several points which were unclear. Did they really have enough time to collect all three spell pieces? Should they have used "FREE"? Were they supposed to use the "MEDAL" spell? What would it have done?
Gretel stressed that they should use the "MEDAL" spell, so presumably that was the correct way for them to escape Ariadne's lair. (i can't imagine what it would actually have done)
My theory is that they were supposed to free Gretel, then use the other spell (which they should have collected) to escape from Ariadne. In gratitude for their help, Gretel would have returned to help them later on in level 2.
I like the idea of them standing near her and then quickly leaving with her to the left.
Several people have commented on them casting "FREE" twice. I assume this was because there was a slight delay after the first casting and they may have thought it hadn't worked for some reason. Just as a different advisor began to try the spell, the first one worked.
I think it's great that this discussion thread has raised many different, but viable, theories.
For whatever reason the odds did seem stacked against this team.
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For whatever reason the odds did seem stacked against this team.
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