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  4. Series 4 Episode 3

Series 4 Episode 3

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Series 4
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  • s4t8brettS
    s4t8brettS
    s4t8brett
    wrote on last edited by
    #56

    You could be precisely correct, AriadnesLayer. It seems to me it's over-thinking it to look for parallels with other quests. The Joker spell and card were re-used several times towards the end of series four, but that doesn't necessitate other ideas being recycled or used in an analogous way.

    However, I do think it also plausible that BUT could have moved Mogdred to turn the Dungeoneer into something and then depart, leaving the team to cast the TRANSFORMATION spell before proceeding. Also, albeit less likely, that they might have encountered the 'same' room again in the tower (after the last wall monster, obvs) - an apparent dead-end, perhaps with life-force fading, but then the TRANSFORMATION spell might have changed their surroundings into the final chamber with the quest object.

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    • C
      C
      Canadanne
      wrote on last edited by
      #57

      I do think it also plausible that BUT could have moved Mogdred to turn the Dungeoneer into something and then depart, leaving the team to cast the TRANSFORMATION spell before proceeding.

      Ooh, I like that theory.

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      • D
        D
        Drassil
        Senior staff
        wrote on last edited by
        #58

        To me, it wouldn't make sense for Hordriss to reward a dungeoneer with a spell he said was "most powerful" but was actually a red herring. I think TRANSFORMATION and BUT were both intended to be used.

        I do think it also plausible that BUT could have moved Mogdred to turn the Dungeoneer into something and then depart, leaving the team to cast the TRANSFORMATION spell before proceeding.

        Ooh, I like that theory.

        It is a fun theory to explore. (I'm not sure why it didn't grab me in the same way when Brett first raised it in 2017.)

        I can picture it happening because, as Brett said:

        we have a precedent with Mogdred turning McGrew into a toad in Series 3 and Brother Mace being turned into a lizard in Series 4.

        I also find it a more plausible effect of BUT than influencing Mogdred to switch from "Prepare to receive the doom of Mogdred" all the way to "On second thoughts, you can pass."

        With the sword staying behind, there would still have been some pressure for the team to act without delay, just as there was when Dickon's team had zapped Malice and was left with critical life force.

        However, the theory raises more questions:

        • If Mogdred returned in a later chamber for a final encounter, how would the team have defeated him?

        • If Mogdred didn't return (consistent with Series 2's winning quests), would that have made for a big anti-climax?

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        • s4t8brettS
          s4t8brettS
          s4t8brett
          wrote on last edited by
          #59

          Team 1 hadn't yet encountered the Corridor of Blades. For Team 6, Malice appeared by the entrance of the Corridor. So, assuming TRANSFORMATION was not intended to be an 'Offensive' spell, perhaps Mogdred would have appeared by the Corridor to issue one last challenge to Team 1, Drassil.

          I don't think Mogdred would have turned into Merlin: either recording would have been interrupted for many minutes for a costume change, with the lack of continuity that would have incurred, or one of the parts would have had to have been pre-recorded, with the consequent lack of live performance, flexibility and interaction.

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          • A
            A
            AriadnesLayer
            wrote on last edited by
            #60

            I like the idea that both BUT and TRANSFORMATION would have been used at some point.

            However, to this day I think it kind of sucks that the team were supposed to be psychic and know that, on this one and only occasion in the entire show, the character they were facing was not going to wait patiently for them to spell out a long word.

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            • A
              A
              AriadnesLayer
              wrote on last edited by
              #61

              or one of the parts would have had to have been pre-recorded, with the consequent lack of live performance, flexibility and interaction.

              That's not to say it wouldn't have happened though. An in-person Mogdred transforning into a pre-recorded Merlin would have worked perfectly well. All the pre-recorded Merlin would have to do is say a couple of lines, reward the dungeoneer with whatever was needed (make a door appear or whatever) and then disappear.

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              • A
                A
                asrl07
                wrote on last edited by
                #62

                I like the idea that both BUT and TRANSFORMATION would have been used at some point.

                However, to this day I think it kind of sucks that the team were supposed to be psychic and know that, on this one and only occasion in the entire show, the character they were facing was not going to wait patiently for them to spell out a long word.

                I think the idea was they were in level 3, and at that level you are expected to work these things out for yourself.

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                • A
                  A
                  AriadnesLayer
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #63

                  How could they possibly work that out when every other time, the actors wait patiently for the spell to be spelled out?

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                  • s4t8brettS
                    s4t8brettS
                    s4t8brett
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #64

                    There was a hint in Mogdred's dialogue on the falling bridge, about Helen being 'too proud'. Looking back from later series, such hints would be more likely to be identified and taken into consideration - particularly with an overall enemy as was Lord Fear, and the Spyglass procedure. Perhaps if it's not the level of difficulty, it's the type of difficulty in that season that seems unfair to some of us.

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                    • s4t8brettS
                      s4t8brettS
                      s4t8brett
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #65

                      The volta, or "turn," in poetry is a rhetorical shift in argument, tone, or emotion, which is frequently signaled by transition words, most notably

                      "but"... This shift is particularly prevalent in sonnets, where it serves as a crucial hinge point — often marking the transition... or introducing the final couplet.

                      I don't suppose many children would've thought of this (if it was even intended), either in the studio or at home watching.

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